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  1. #1
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    Roll Eyes Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Supreme Court Rules DNA Can Be Taken After Arrest

    http://www.npr.org/2013/06/03/188397...ion-reasonable

    It's also crazy to see what side of the fence the way each justice voted on this issue.

    Innocent until proven guilty. hum.
    Support Your Local Sheriff - At high noon

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  2. #2
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    I agree with Scalia and the lefties on this one. If police need a warrant to draw blood to determine your blood alcohol level if you refuse a Breathalyzer test, then they should need a warrant to take a DNA sample.

  3. #3
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Not quite the same. Alcohol level by itself will incriminate, DNA is like fingerprinting. It is a means of identification. Like a fingerprint DNA will only incriminate if left at a crime scene. Do you claim a Constitutional Right not to be fingerprinted when arrested?
    FRH
    If more sane people were armed the crazy ones would get off fewer shots.

    Win 7 Premium SP1 / MX 15 KDE / MEPIS 11

  4. #4
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank1946 View Post
    Not quite the same. Alcohol level by itself will incriminate, DNA is like fingerprinting. It is a means of identification. Like a fingerprint DNA will only incriminate if left at a crime scene. Do you claim a Constitutional Right not to be fingerprinted when arrested?
    Then, why don't we take DNA samples of everybody at birth and make all US citizens send in DNA samples with their tax returns and put it all into a giant federal database if DNA samples are that harmless?

  5. #5
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    Then, why don't we take DNA samples of everybody at birth and make all US citizens send in DNA samples with their tax returns and put it all into a giant federal database if DNA samples are that harmless?
    I think a better argument would be the a comparison towards the slippery slope one used by the some with the issue of guns. DNA allows a look into the inside of our bodies. A national database of our medical propensities is something the system has not adapted to in the sense of protection of personal privacies.

    This is why the most conservative judge sided with the most liberals. Like them or not, they think beyond simple associations. The others, the majority, probable compared it to finger prints-which it isn't.

    Agree or not with the decision, I see this as another example of what a great system we have.
    Last edited by otoc; 06-06-2013 at 06:09 AM.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  6. #6
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    I think a better argument would be the a comparison towards the slippery slope one used by the some with the issue of guns. DNA allows a look into the inside of our bodies. A national database of our medical propensities is something the system has not adapted to in the sense of protection of personal privacies.
    Good point. I was looking at it from a purely law enforcement perspective. There's no telling what the Government will use it for beyond identification.
    FRH
    If more sane people were armed the crazy ones would get off fewer shots.

    Win 7 Premium SP1 / MX 15 KDE / MEPIS 11

  7. #7
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    My concern is less the government and more someone employed by some branch- federal, state, local- and how that may be used. We have the power to push regulations covering this new device. The problem is now they have permission to collect samples without warrant without regulating how it may be used now or in the future.

    This is what Jefferson meant by being vigilant. And something we fix by legislation. This one is a state level issue right now complicated by sharing on a federal level. Personally I think it needs to be associated with a conviction not an arrest.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  8. #8
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    My concern is less the government and more someone employed by some branch- federal, state, local- and how that may be used. We have the power to push regulations covering this new device. The problem is now they have permission to collect samples without warrant without regulating how it may be used now or in the future.
    Good to hear some feedback on this topic.

    I tossed this out into the ring to see where this could lead. Seems there are basically the same two camps here slugging this out.

    Let's toss in a spin ...

    OK, in China they do collect DNA samples of prisoners. The problem is, that DNA isn't used towards incrimination of the incarcerated, rather, it's used to find a match for body organs. If a DNA match turns up to be higher than the 85% level, that prisoner either gets something removed and wakes up with one or so less body parts or the prisoner is reported to the next of kin as died in prison.

    With the new Health Care law, who is to say that not being "normal" would cause an arrest due to having "arms" and tossed into the clinker whereby providing a DNA sample. Then some big-wig with millions needs a liver/heart/eye/etc is a match to you.

    Then what ?????????????????????????? Your person DNA privateness of who you are is now exposed for all to pry into.

    Your DNA is more than fingerprints, it even says what FAULTS and BAD GENES you have. To weed out the poor part of our human kind, you could end up sterile.

    There are just too many problems with the DNA finding. Why HITLER even went after certain nationality types. Your DNA may just have a mere 8% of something that isn't acceptable. Bump you off is the answer.

    In 5 or 10 years, will our Freedoms exist to prevent any of this? Or will our country fall into those hands of tyranny that could weed people out ...
    Support Your Local Sheriff - At high noon

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  9. #9
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank1946 View Post
    Good point. I was looking at it from a purely law enforcement perspective. There's no telling what the Government will use it for beyond identification.
    Or, who will use what the Government loses.

  10. #10
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Interesting to see the Supreme Court ruling on the DNA patent issue. DNA that is natural is protected. A company can't patent something that occurs naturally, even if it's a mutant. BUT, the Supremes did leave open the scientific alterations to be patentable. Thus, if a genetically enhanced human or other animal is generated, would that being become property of a company or military or university? This takes on a new meaning towards slavery or mutant animals.
    Support Your Local Sheriff - At high noon

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  11. #11
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Just to clear something up...

    A scientific alteration would NOT be property of a company, or military, or university; a scientific alteration WOULD be patentable by a company, military, or university (if the courts rule in that favor). A song would NOT be property of a musician, their label, their fans, or whatever; a song WOULD be copyrighted to a musician, their label, or whatever.

    You do NOT OWN an idea, a concept, an implementation, etc. Intellectual property is a terrible misnomer. You are granted limited exclusivity over a concept, an implementation, etc. Ownership always belongs to society. Society then, to promote the progress of science and the useful arts, allows limited exclusivity over their respective writings and discoveries for a limited time.

    Never ownership. Unfortunately, due to the terrible name "Intellectual Property", a human sense of entitlement, and this limited exclusivity being relicensed as if it were property, people believe that it is property. It is not. Always remember that, because this confusion causes a crap-ton of bad decisions based on an inappropriate model.

    edit: Removed references to trademark, because that is under "The Commerce Clause" and would just get a bit... confusing... to be talked about alongside "The Copyright Clause". Also, I'm being very US-centric with this... but the basis I'm referring to is pretty international.
    Last edited by Phopojijo; 06-14-2013 at 01:56 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    Just to clear something up...

    A scientific alteration would NOT be property of a company, or military, or university; a scientific alteration WOULD be patentable by a company, military, or university (if the courts rule in that favor). A song would NOT be property of a musician, their label, their fans, or whatever; a song WOULD be copyrighted to a musician, their label, or whatever.

    You do NOT OWN an idea, a concept, an implementation, etc. Intellectual property is a terrible misnomer. You are granted limited exclusivity over a concept, an implementation, etc. Ownership always belongs to society. Society then, to promote the progress of science and the useful arts, allows limited exclusivity over their respective writings and discoveries for a limited time.

    Never ownership. Unfortunately, due to the terrible name "Intellectual Property", a human sense of entitlement, and this limited exclusivity being relicensed as if it were property, people believe that it is property. It is not. Always remember that, because this confusion causes a crap-ton of bad decisions based on an inappropriate model.

    edit: Removed references to trademark, because that is under "The Commerce Clause" and would just get a bit... confusing... to be talked about alongside "The Copyright Clause". Also, I'm being very US-centric with this... but the basis I'm referring to is pretty international.
    In theory. Disney sure keeps finding ways to make sure they own Mickey Mouse until the end of time, though.

  13. #13
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    In theory. Disney sure keeps finding ways to make sure they own Mickey Mouse until the end of time, though.
    On related news, you see the lawsuit challenging the copyright over the song "Happy Birthday"?
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  14. #14
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    In theory. Disney sure keeps finding ways to make sure they own Mickey Mouse until the end of time, though.
    Trademarks can be owned ad infinitum... which means that Disney will be the only ones who can make "Mickey Mouse" cartoons, just like Coca Cola can be the only ones who make Coca Cola as long as they do not abandon their trademark. That is why trademark owners must continually pursue infringements of their trademark in court, if they don't properly license or stop infringement they run the risk of having their trademark declared abandoned.

    This is actually one of the confusions... people claiming "X needs to protect their (patents/copyrights)". Nope. They need to protect their trademarks because they must prove intent to use its rights, not their copyrights and patents -- those will expire to the public domain eventually (eventually being a more and more appropriate word for that).

    If Disney keeps making Mickey Mouse films using the Mickey Mouse design for 5000 years they can keep being the only source for Mickey Mouse films. They cannot keep their older works under copyright for 5000 years (unless they get reallly aggressive with lobbying), but they can be the only ones to make "Mickey Mouse" films. Likewise, Coca Cola cannot prevent other people from using their recipe for thousands of years... but they can prevent anyone from calling themselves "Coca Cola" so long as they intend on being THE Coca Cola.

    Now if Disney or Coca Cola abandons the Mickey Mouse or Coca Cola trademarks to the public domain... either by failing to renew, ignoring infringements, or what-have-you... then yes, any member of the public can make a movie starring Mickey Mouse or make a drink, even apple juice, and call it Coca Cola.
    Last edited by Phopojijo; 06-14-2013 at 08:26 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Get arrested, give your DNA sample

    I'm a big government kind of guy. I think the government should tattoo every bodies arse at birth. That way it will be much easier to find the sheeple they're looking for in the flock when they're in a hurry.

    I've been finger printed by the government so many times my finger tips have a permanent black stain. Bizarrely enough I've never been arrested.

    The government can identify me with finger prints, eye scans, facial recognition, DNA, every time I go through a big intersection they can identify me with cameras, when I take a walk they can identify with cameras and they can identify me by pecker length and girth because they take an X-ray at the airport. There's probably a few more ways that come to mind right now and probably ways they can identify me I don't know about yet.

    When is enough enough...
    Last edited by tucker; 06-14-2013 at 09:42 PM.

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