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  1. #1
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    Roll Eyes Please give some opinions on Haswell-E platform

    So I'm thinking about getting Haswell-E when it comes out around the end of the year (until then I'll be slowly upgrading my cooling and getting a sound card)

    Now some of the pros include a better Thermal Interface Material (TIM), more cores, and a much more future proof platform (X99 chipset is amazing)

    I'd like some opinions on the hardware and to start a discussion on the theoretical longevity, performance, pros, cons, and interest in the platform (I'm very educated in terms of PC parts *been building comps for years* and am not really biased towards any company)

    Please do not post off topic (i.e. "you don't need that much power, just get a high end AMD system") as that is not helpful or pertinent to the topic. I do want a fun and interesting discussion though

  2. #2
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    Re: Please give some opinions on Haswell-E platform

    Whats your current rig? the X99 Platform is pretty awesome, but its going to be absurdly expensive. Early adopting DDR4 isn't going to be cheap, and those 8 core chips are probably going to be like $1K+ to avoid competing with their xeon line. My opinion is that its going to be an awesome beast of a system that 95+% of users don't really need, gamers included, as they simply won't see a real world benefit from DDR4 or 8 cores for a long time. If the goal is to build the biggest, baddest system you can get your hands on, its the way to go, but I see more value in waiting for whatever the "mainstream" platform is that is going to incorporate DDR4 (desktop broadwell?) if you've already got anything newer than Sandy Bridge.


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  3. #3
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    Re: Please give some opinions on Haswell-E platform

    Ok so, I have a 4670k Haswell with the ASUS ROG Hero and 8GB of RAM. I understand that it will be expensive, also, the rumors say it will have both 6 and 8 core versions. My current Haswell does not OC very much so getting a Haswell-E would be nice. I also mentioned Longevity, I'd like to get it to ride out about 3 years (the last two years I've been upgrading more frequently than usual) Having quad channel RAM and some extra CPU juice will hopefully keep it up for a good long time.

    Also, most Broadwell chips will be BGA (as in soldered to boards) I think most people will be waiting for Skylake 2H of 2015.

    Thanks for the response

  4. #4
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    Re: Please give some opinions on Haswell-E platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
    Ok so, I have a 4670k Haswell with the ASUS ROG Hero and 8GB of RAM. I understand that it will be expensive, also, the rumors say it will have both 6 and 8 core versions. My current Haswell does not OC very much so getting a Haswell-E would be nice. I also mentioned Longevity, I'd like to get it to ride out about 3 years (the last two years I've been upgrading more frequently than usual) Having quad channel RAM and some extra CPU juice will hopefully keep it up for a good long time.

    Also, most Broadwell chips will be BGA (as in soldered to boards) I think most people will be waiting for Skylake 2H of 2015.

    Thanks for the response
    There will be unlocked socketed Broadwell SKU's, but since there will be Broadwell support on lga 1150 I'm not sure what the status of DDR4 support is (mostly seeing info from unreliable sources)... I'm guessing its pushed to Skylake or limited to BGA packages for now

    As far as OC'ing goes, I wouldn't expect Haswell-E to fix those problems. Better TIM, yes, but the underlying architecture and process are just not as good, as evidenced by the still mediocre OC'ing performance (esp compared to SB) after a de-lid, even running direct die contact cooling. You'll have the advantage of extra cores, but its not going to be night & day for clocks. It will be interesting to see what Devils Canyon has to offer in this department, it might be a good indicator of what to expect.

    We're both running very similar setups and I fully expect this system to have plenty of shelf life for what I want to do with it, no additional future-proofing required. I can't possibly imagine a scenario where, within 2 years, I'm really looking for an upgrade because I need it. Unless you're doing workloads that desperately need the memory bandwidth DDR4 can provide and need 6/8 cores, I still just don't see the need. A little while ago I was running an i7-970 on my primary rig (gulftown 6-core) and saw no benefit. Swapped back to my i7-950 (bloomfield quad) and sold the 970. Granted, this was a couple years ago and I was definitely GPU limited in most applications, but I'm not convinced the situation has changed much since then. At the very least I would still say Haswell-E's benefits can be summed up to a handful of things: up to 4 more cores, quad channel, DDR4, extra PCI-E lanes, and soldered IHS. If, for some reason, those things are "must haves" for you, then I would even say wait for Broadwell-E or even Skylake-E, which will have them PLUS any advantages the new cores bring
    Last edited by Activate: AMD; 05-26-2014 at 12:25 PM.


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  5. #5
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    Re: Please give some opinions on Haswell-E platform

    Yeah, Devils Canyon will be binned parts so they will more than likely OC better (the question is by how much) You do make very good points. I personally have not seen that games have been substantially more multi-threaded over the years but I have heard through several articles that many applications (maybe games as well) will be optimizing more for multiple cores as Intel's IPC improvements have been mostly stagnant (I blame lack of competition and the rise of mobile computing)

    As far as memory bandwidth and DDR4 (which go hand in hand) I'm not quite certain of how much greater it can be concerning actual use case scenarios with DDR3. Although one thing is for certain, although memory prices will be higher for a while, memory density will most likely improve (as with every spec in the past) Maybe the price for 16GB of DDR4 will not be much more expensive considering the issues with DDR3 memory density?

    Extra PCI-E lanes with-out a PLX chip would be nice (although this is pretty much overkill) I'd be interested if they were used for storage though (SATA express) The layout for the slots looks to be a bit better as well with x16/NC/x16/NC/x8, or x16/NC/x8/x8/x8, or even x8/x8/x8/x8/x8.

    The OC improvements for Devils Canyon (and hopefully for Haswell-E) were not limited to the better TIM, they mentioned "better packaging" and something about stronger or more resistant LGA points. "more engineered for Overclocking" could mean anything, or very little though.

    As far as Broadwell is concerned, it's pretty much an optical shrink with minor improvements in IPC. I'd actually expect that core to fair worse on the high end considering the ever increasing limitations of the newer, smaller processes. I think it may get to a point very soon that shrinks will just not work as you would need to engineer a core specifically for that process. (not to mention the lesser viability of Silicon as a base material, it probably can't go past 14nm)

    So yeah, I guess I'll wait for reviews and such to give me a better picture on the Haswell refresh and Haswell-E and then make a conclusion as to either obtain a Haswell-E system or wait for Skylake-E (even though Skylake is much more of a question mark at this point)

    Thanks for the thorough and practical analysis of the subject O-Dog
    Last edited by Fishbait; 05-27-2014 at 02:19 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Please give some opinions on Haswell-E platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
    As far as memory bandwidth and DDR4 (which go hand in hand) I'm not quite certain of how much greater it can be concerning actual use case scenarios with DDR3. Although one thing is for certain, although memory prices will be higher for a while, memory density will most likely improve (as with every spec in the past) Maybe the price for 16GB of DDR4 will not be much more expensive considering the issues with DDR3 memory density?
    I'd like to think so, but the initial volumes will be small so I really don't see the prices being low... The cycle is probably doomed to be repeated as it has been with every memory generation change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
    Extra PCI-E lanes with-out a PLX chip would be nice (although this is pretty much overkill) I'd be interested if they were used for storage though (SATA express) The layout for the slots looks to be a bit better as well with x16/NC/x16/NC/x8, or x16/NC/x8/x8/x8, or even x8/x8/x8/x8/x8.
    Yea, thats definitely true. The controller situation with z97 is pretty nuts with the limited PCI-e lanes. The extra stuff will be more useful for sata express and/or m.2 drives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
    The OC improvements for Devils Canyon (and hopefully for Haswell-E) were not limited to the better TIM, they mentioned "better packaging" and something about stronger or more resistant LGA points. "more engineered for Overclocking" could mean anything, or very little though.
    My guess is that the changes for DC will be carried over to Haswell-E as well, so its probably still a reasonable comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
    As far as Broadwell is concerned, it's pretty much an optical shrink with minor improvements in IPC. I'd actually expect that core to fair worse on the high end considering the ever increasing limitations of the newer, smaller processes. I think it may get to a point very soon that shrinks will just not work as you would need to engineer a core specifically for that process. (not to mention the lesser viability of Silicon as a base material, it probably can't go past 14nm)
    Thats true, but you might also consider the fact that broadwell/broadwell-E might bring another X series chipset with additional features. Just somehting to think about, considering that Haswell -> Haswell E is essentially a side-grade on the CPU core fron
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
    Thanks for the thorough and practical analysis of the subject O-Dog


    Trust me, I do science
    My Hardware, Past and Present

  7. #7
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    Re: Please give some opinions on Haswell-E platform

    Ok, so for anyone that reads this thread, here is a slight update.

    The 3 Haswell-E CPUs have been leaked; they are 3 Core i7 chips named 5960X, 5930K, and 5820K.

    The 5960X is an 8 core chip clocked at 3Ghz with 20MB of cache.

    The 5930K is a 6 core chip clocked at 3.5Ghz with 15MB of cache.

    The 5820K is a 6 core chip clocked at 3.3Ghz with 15MB of cache.

    They all have a 140W TDP and the big difference for the low end chip is that it has 28 PCIE lanes instead of 40 (normal Haswell has only 16 lanes so most likely for sane people this is not a big deal)

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