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  1. #1
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    The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Some people think that the Constitution can be basically repealed by the ignorance and inaction of the public.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...lation-n440781
    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/1...-control-camp/

    While I'm sorry that friends and family have been killed by guns, if someone's friend or family breaks into my flat, they may be going out in a body bag. If a woman with a child is threatened or assaulted, a 9mm in her possession at least gives her chance against a much larger man.

    I'm in favor of some form of gun rules. Not every crazy jackass should be able to get one at Walmart and I should be able to show a CCW that proves I'm a responsible owner than have it used as proof that I have a gun to confiscate for whatever political agenda that hits the wind.

    The 2nd Amendment reads like this:

    Amendment II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I personally believe that the a person's right to bear arms helps protect their freedom and a free country. That said, it's supposed to be a well regulated militia the public makes. I believe that easily 90% or more of the public would be responsible owners and proper training and respect for their weapon should be encouraged.

    At any rate- statistics about gun violence make a poor argument for "Repeal by Decree". The US having 4.7/100,000 murders (gun related or not) means that less than 0.005% of the people need help that gun control can't provide and gun banning makes the other 99.995% easy victims and the country a door mat.

    Well, here we go....
    Last edited by Skennar; 10-09-2015 at 10:05 AM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  2. #2
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    There are about 100 abortions for every death from a bullet in the USA.

    Two public mass shootings in the last few decades were not in a gun free zone. The rest were.

    Besides it being a constitutional argument that the left wants to disregard when making their arguments, they rely on creating hysteria with misleading and often false information. Kinda like the global warming arguments, the Planned Parenthood arguments, the job situation arguments, the illegal immigration arguments, the Hillary e-mail and Benghazi arguments, and so on, and so on.

  3. #3
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    And of course, because Hillary has proclaimed she would trump Obama's executive actions on the matter, he's now considering a few more laws by decree...

    It might be a good time to double up on those gun manufacturer's in your portfolio.

  4. #4
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    It might be a good time to double up on those gun manufacturer's in your portfolio.
    Ammo ones too.

    Meanwhile, our constitution ignoring and war criminal President also plans to get away with killing 22 people or more dead in a hospital with a gunship in Afghanistan with an apology
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/wo...ital.html?_r=0

    That may not be enough for Doctors Without Borders, which has said they do not believe the three investigations that have been begun into the incident — by NATO and a joint United States-Afghan group and the Defense Department — are independent enough to find the truth about what happened.
    -
    At a news conference in Geneva on Wednesday, Dr. Liu said that patients at the Kunduz hospital burned in their beds, and that doctors, nurses and other staff members were killed as they worked. “Our colleagues had to operate on each other,” she said. “One of our doctors died on an improvised operating table — an office desk — while his colleagues tried to save his life.”
    I don't think an apology and a lashing out at underlings would cover it for me either.

    Our president has a very different definition of the Golden rule than his ... ahem ... Christian counterparts.

    I'll leave the ISIS backing part of this for another thread.
    Last edited by Skennar; 10-09-2015 at 02:55 PM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  5. #5
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate



    It not like they haven't been used in homicides either- but they'll likely be banned because they shoot CO2.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_U.S._by_year

    Cars?

    Year | Deaths | per 100,000

    2010[2] 32,999 10.668
    2011[4] 32,479 10.424
    2012[1] 33,561 10.691
    2013[5] 32,719 10.345

    US gun homicides: ~3.1 / 100,000 (2013)
    Last edited by Skennar; 10-09-2015 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Table edits
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  6. #6
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    J
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    There are about 100 abortions for every death from a bullet in the USA.

    Two public mass shootings in the last few decades were not in a gun free zone. The rest were.

    Besides it being a constitutional argument that the left wants to disregard when making their arguments, they rely on creating hysteria with misleading and often false information. Kinda like the global warming arguments, the Planned Parenthood arguments, the job situation arguments, the illegal immigration arguments, the Hillary e-mail and Benghazi arguments, and so on, and so on.
    Killing babies is an acceptable practice in the radical left world. Selling body parts harvested from aborted babies is cheered by the radical left. Owning a gun makes you a mass murderer in the radical left world.

    Something is radically wrong. This country and the world are heading into uncharted troubled waters.

    To many college degrees in stupid.
    I'm a Marine
    To save time
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    I'm never wrong.

  7. #7
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    http://www.wnd.com/2015/10/obama-gre...O8dX05bZPSd.99
    Hundreds of protesters greeted President Obama’s motorcade in Roseburg, Oregon, Friday as a group called “Defend Roseburg” held signs and waved banners while others silently turned their backs as the motorcade rolled by.

    Obama came to Roseburg, the White House said, to mourn with family members of the nine victims shot dead by a gunman at Umqua Community College on Oct. 1.

    “We’re going to have to come together as a nation to deal with this issue,” Obama said. “But today is about the families.”

    In fact Obama’s Democrat loyalists in the Senate led by Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., have already readied several gun control bills. If those don’t pass, the White House said Friday the president is considering taking unilateral action by executive order to create new federal background checks for firearms purchases, ABC News reported.

    Many protesters in Roseburg said they were not in a mood to welcome a president who so quickly and callously politicized a tragedy. Some came with their guns to make their point. All were peaceful.

    “He should stay away,” Gary Shambling, 66, of Winston, whose 1935 Harvester International pickup was parked Friday morning along the side of Aviation Drive, told his local newspaper, the Register-Guard. His truck had a large “No Bama” sign in red letters.

    “He made it very plain, 15 minutes after the shooting happened,” Shambling said. “He politicized it. The bodies weren’t even cold.”
    Yeah- this is how much as he cares about the families. About as much as all the CO2 he generated on this trip
    Last edited by Skennar; 10-11-2015 at 04:48 PM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    There are about 100 abortions for every death from a bullet in the USA.

    Two public mass shootings in the last few decades were not in a gun free zone. The rest were.

    Besides it being a constitutional argument that the left wants to disregard when making their arguments, they rely on creating hysteria with misleading and often false information. Kinda like the global warming arguments, the Planned Parenthood arguments, the job situation arguments, the illegal immigration arguments, the Hillary e-mail and Benghazi arguments, and so on, and so on.
    I'm confused with what your point is here. Are you equating women who make the decision to have a legal abortion as a murderer?

    I had to ignore the rest of this Facebook rant, global warming,lol.

    I'd say the left doesn't have a lock on misleading and false information based on that post.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.


  9. #9
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    ^^^it seems the 2nd isn't in play here. Precedent set the ability to place restrictions on what and how gun ownership occurs in spite of guns being an apple to the orange of being able to drive a car.

    I'm looking forward to seeing how mental health plays into this, for to date there's been only lip service on that topic. Talk about restrictions to gun ownership then; what and how does a person's medical condition become not so private information that the local cop knows what someone is going through even though a crime has not been committed. That's a slippery slope the GOP is sliding down.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.


  10. #10
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    It's not the women it's the way the law is structured. The law legalizes what amounts to murder. Baby killing is as low as society can go.
    I'm a Marine
    To save time
    Let's just assume
    I'm never wrong.

  11. #11
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    ....
    I'm looking forward to seeing how mental health plays into this, for to date there's been only lip service on that topic. Talk about restrictions to gun ownership then; what and how does a person's medical condition become not so private information that the local cop knows what someone is going through even though a crime has not been committed. That's a slippery slope the GOP is sliding down.
    Actually, I'm not entirely against having restrictions and qualifications against those who have committed violent crimes or are violently mentally ill. The problem for me is how the government defines that- that is the real issue. I also don't think this is an issue the Federal government should stick its •••• into- it's too divorced from the differences between states and too global agenda driven. I've heard that they want to take guns away from those who auto-deposit (so to speak) their social security checks. Wtf?
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...beneficiaries/

    My mom did have a gun and stopped someone breaking in with it in her 70s. So fuk 'em. It's precisely because of their disabilities that they need them more than I do.

    What I would like to see is a public that can defend itself if necessary and be a part of the response to violent crime, invasion and terrorism. The government should be concentrating on prevention and responsibility. Disarming based on the du jour politics is the cop-out of tyrants.
    Last edited by Skennar; 10-12-2015 at 09:20 AM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Skennar View Post
    Actually, I'm not entirely against having restrictions and qualifications against those who have committed violent crimes or are violently mentally ill. The problem for me is how the government defines that- that is the real issue. I also don't think this is an issue the Federal government should stick its •••• into- it's too divorced from the differences between states and too global agenda driven. I've heard that they want to take guns away from those who auto-deposit (so to speak) their social security checks. Wtf?
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...beneficiaries/

    My mom did have a gun and stopped someone breaking in with it in her 70s. So fuk 'em. It's precisely because of their disabilities that they need them more than I do.

    What I would like to see is a public that can defend itself if necessary and be a part of the response to violent crime, invasion and terrorism. The government should be concentrating on prevention and responsibility. Disarming based on the du jour politics is the cop-out of tyrants.
    Then we are in agreement with the majority, including Obama. No one, except a fringe is calling for outright ban. I think if you look beyond the typical brietbart lede of misdirection into their source, the latimes article, you'll see I have backing on that opinion:
    Seeking tighter controls over firearm purchases, the Obama administration is pushing to ban Social Security beneficiaries from owning guns if they lack the mental capacity to manage their own affairs, a move that could affect millions whose monthly disability payments are handled by others.

    The push is intended to bring the Social Security Administration in line with laws regulating who gets reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, which is used to prevent gun sales to felons, drug addicts, immigrants in the country illegally and others.
    Obama is following the GOP--mental health. Too bad brietbart doesn't get the fact that Obama is following their lead.

    Now, going back 3 school shootings where 4 or more were injured, I'd say there is validity to this discussion:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/06...?_r=2&referer=

    Wish I had more time today, we could talk about how someone had a gun at that shooting but didn't engage, and how someone engaged without being armed and was almost killed. But that would go better in the "who's running" thread.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.


  13. #13
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    It's not the women it's the way the law is structured. The law legalizes what amounts to murder. Baby killing is as low as society can go.
    Wow, I'm so glad more intelligent minds debated this topic in the courts many years ago. I don't have rolleyes big enough to end this. Btw, you have doubled down on calling women who abort fetuses within the law as murders and no double talking will change that.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.


  14. #14
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Then we are in agreement with the majority, including Obama. No one, except a fringe is calling for outright ban.
    -
    Obama is following the GOP--mental health. Too bad brietbart doesn't get the fact that Obama is following their lead.

    Now, going back 3 school shootings where 4 or more were injured, I'd say there is validity to this discussion:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/06...?_r=2&referer=
    If you read my post you would have understood that Obama would have nothing to unconstitutionally legislate, fund, and execute by executive order and the federal GOP would not have anything to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skennar above
    In fact Obama’s Democrat loyalists in the Senate led by Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., have already readied several gun control bills. If those don’t pass, the White House said Friday the president is considering taking unilateral action by executive order to create new federal background checks for firearms purchases, ABC News reported.
    This is a problem that needs to be dealt with by the states, local authorities and the people. If Obama wants to stop anybody from shooting each other, then he wouldn't be still fukking with issues in Syria and bombing hospitals in Afghanistan.
    Last edited by Skennar; 10-12-2015 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Had to paste in quote
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  15. #15
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    Re: The Great 2nd Ammendment Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    I'm confused with what your point is here. Are you equating women who make the decision to have a legal abortion as a murderer?

    I had to ignore the rest of this Facebook rant, global warming,lol.

    I'd say the left doesn't have a lock on misleading and false information based on that post.
    What information in that post is misleading or false? Are there not about 100 abortions for every death from a bullet in the USA? Is it not true that there were only two public mass shootings in the last few decades that were not in a gun free zone while the rest were?

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