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  1. #1
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    The slip and slide to infanticide.

    So slippery slope arguments are not arguments at all?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...LAMUxl6E.email

    They argued: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”
    While accepting that many people would disagree with their arguments, he wrote: “The goal of the Journal of Medical Ethics is not to present the Truth or promote some one moral view. It is to present well reasoned argument based on widely accepted premises.”

    Speaking to The Daily Telegraph, he added: “This “debate” has been an example of “witch ethics” - a group of people know who the witch is and seek to burn her. It is one of the most dangerous human tendencies we have. It leads to lynching and genocide. Rather than argue and engage, there is a drive is to silence and, in the extreme, kill, based on their own moral certainty. That is not the sort of society we should live in.”
    Of course we shouldn't rush to judgement and try to silence people with these views but should engage these matters in reasonable debate...

    hahahaha

    Any body ever watch solyent green .. where they politely euthanize you so you can be turned into food...

    Everyday I find a new reason to not seek progression into a civilized individual.
    "In the end we all come to be cured of our sentiments. Those whom life does not cure death will. The world is quite ruthless in selecting between dream and reality, even where we will not."
    -Duena Alfonsa - All the Pretty Horses -Cormac McCarthy

  2. #2
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    The Torygraph stops being sycophantic to the ruling classes long enough to notice a fuss which rose up nearly two months ago, and has died down everywhere else - another quality British newspaper. It was not a suggestion, never mind a mandate, but a purely theoretical philosophical argument about what, if any fundamental difference there was between abortion and infanticide - but it did NOT advocate either. It merely pointed out that if you accepted the former, then it could argued that you tacitly agreed to the latter. The irony is that most of the people attacking the article are a) people who stopped reading after the second paragraph, and b) people who already think abortion is the same as infanticide.


    M

  3. #3
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Lots o big words there bub.

    I did read the entire article published in the bmj. I understand the argument and i never said it was mandate or any other thing. It just shows the thought process of the intellectuals and that is even though being alive and a potential person as an infant has no asperations it is not a person and there is no innate right to its own progression. It doesnt have to advocate any form of termination becuase it is saying there is nothing to terminate.

    Plain and simply dehumanization. no degree required.

    Now lets see some more big words mister smarty pants

    "Lebensunwertes Leben"
    Last edited by PSFRT; 04-13-2012 at 09:05 PM.
    "In the end we all come to be cured of our sentiments. Those whom life does not cure death will. The world is quite ruthless in selecting between dream and reality, even where we will not."
    -Duena Alfonsa - All the Pretty Horses -Cormac McCarthy

  4. #4
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSFRT View Post
    Lots o big words there bub ... It just shows the thought process of the intellectuals ... no degree required.

    Now lets see some more big words mister smarty pants


    Ah - good old anti-intellectualism. Can I assume that you are from the US? And can I point out your Godwin's Law fail there?


    M

  5. #5
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Ah - good old anti-intellectualism. Can I assume that you are from the US? And can I point out your Godwin's Law fail there?


    M
    Careful Meridian, you might come off sounding like an elitist ••••• talking like that.

  6. #6
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    George Carlin was an elitist too. And frankly, the most spot on...16 years ago:

    Why, why, why, why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to •••• in the first place, huh? Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're ••••••.

    Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach "military age". Then they think you are just fine. Just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. Pro-life... pro-life... These people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? What, they'll do anything they can to save a fetus but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it?They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women.They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

    Pro-life... You don't see many of these white anti-abortion women volunteering to have any black fetuses transplanted into their uteruses, do you? No, you don't see them adopting a whole lot of crack babies, do you? No, that might be something Christ would do. And, you won't see alot of these pro-life people dousing themselves in kerosene and lighting themselves on fire. You know, moraly committed religious people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a goddamn demonstration, didn't they?! They knew how to put on a ••••••• protest. Light yourself on FIRE!! C'mon, you moral crusaders, let's see a little smoke. To match that fire in your belly.

    Here's another question I have: how come when it's us, it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette? Are we so much better than chickens all of a sudden? When did this happen, that we passed chickens in goodness? Name six ways we're better than chickens... See, nobody can do it! You know why? 'Cuz chickens are decent people. You don't see chickens hanging around in drug gangs, do you? No, you don't see a chicken strapping some guy to a chair and hooking up his nuts to a car battery, do you? When's the last chicken you heard about came home from work and beat the shit out of his hen, huh? Doesn't happen. 'Cuz chickens are decent people.

    But let's get back to this abortion shit. Now, is a fetus a human being? This seems to be the central question. Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say "we have two children and one on the way" instead of saying "we have three children?" People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process. Continuous, just keeps rolling along. Rolling, rolling, rolling along.

    And say you know something? Listen, you can go back further than that. What about the carbon atoms? Hah? Human life could not exist without carbon. So is it just possible that maybe we shouldn't be burning all this coal? Just looking for a little consistency here in these anti-abortion arguments. See the really hardcore people will tell you life begins at fertilization. Fertilization, when the sperm fertilizes the egg. Which is usually a few moments after the man says "Gee, honey, I was going to pull out but the phone rang and it startled me." Fertilization.

    But even after the egg is fertilized, it's still six or seven days before it reaches the uterus and pregnancy begins, and not every egg makes it that far. Eighty percent of a woman's fertilized eggs are rinsed and flushed out of her body once a month during those delightful few days she has. They wind up on sanitary napkins, and yet they are fertilized eggs. So basically what these anti-abortion people are telling us is that any woman who's had more than more than one period is a serial killer! Consistency. Consistency. Hey, hey, if they really want to get serious, what about all the sperm that are wasted when the state executes a condemned man, one of these pro-life guys who's watching cums in his pants, huh? Here's a guy standing over there with his jockey shorts full of little Vinnies and Debbies, and nobody's saying a word to the guy. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

    Now, speaking of consistency, Catholics, which I was until I reached the age of reason, Catholics and other Christians are against abortions, and they're against homosexuals. Well who has less abortions than homosexuals?! Leave these ••••••• people alone, for Christ sakes! Here is an entire class of people guaranteed never to have an abortion! And the Catholics and Christians are just tossing them aside! You'd think they'd make natural allies. Go look for consistency in religion. And speaking of my friends the Catholics, when John Cardinal O'Connor of New York and some of these other Cardinals and Bishops have experienced their first pregnancies and their first labor pains and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion. I'm sure it'll be interesting. Enlightening, too. But, in the meantime what they ought to be doing is telling these priests who took a vow of chastity to keep their hands off the altar boys! Keep your hands to yourself, Father! You know? When Jesus said "Suffer the little children come unto me", that's not what he was talking about!

    So you know what I tell these anti-abortion people? I say "Hey. Hey. If you think a fetus is more important that a woman, try getting a fetus to wash the shit stains out of your underwear. For no pay and no pension." I tell them "Think of an abortion as term limits. That's all it is. Bioligical term limits.

  7. #7
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Yes we know concepts like personal accountability were out of Carlins reach. Way to address the actual topic which is the fact that those looney ignorant rednecks that said abortion was just one step closer to infanticide and eugenics were actually right. No policy change is required when your newborn child is now morally irrelevant.

    The second point is this process is called dehumanization. Its been used the world over many times. I guess some old Nazi Docs made it to NZ huh? Thier idiealogies are alive and well in some I see.
    "In the end we all come to be cured of our sentiments. Those whom life does not cure death will. The world is quite ruthless in selecting between dream and reality, even where we will not."
    -Duena Alfonsa - All the Pretty Horses -Cormac McCarthy

  8. #8
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    George Carlin was an elitist too. And frankly, the most spot on...16 years ago:
    You're going to wear out the "Ctrl" and "V" keys if you keep copying and pasting that Carlin quote.

  9. #9
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Ah - good old anti-intellectualism. Can I assume that you are from the US? And can I point out your Godwin's Law fail there?


    M
    My, my aren’t we catty.

    Those unsophisticated gun toting, bible thumping cowboys from the colonies bug me too.
    Last edited by tucker; 04-14-2012 at 10:54 PM.
    Thank A Democrat... Vote DNC

    AOC... New Leader DNC ....

  10. #10
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.



    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  11. #11
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    ...ahh, to be so young and light-headed enough to get my opinions from cartoonists and comedians.

  12. #12
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    ^

    Cute.

    Hey, I heard that Democrats are against the death penalty.

    Well, unless it happens between the point of conception to birth.

    Too bad we can't use a wire coat hanger or dust buster on the people sitting on death row.

  13. #13
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_nVidia View Post
    ...ahh, to be so young and light-headed enough to get my opinions from cartoonists and comedians.
    Lol, no kidding! But Carlin said....But Stewart said!!! Jesus, wtf.

  14. #14
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Quote Originally Posted by PSFRT View Post
    The second point is this process is called dehumanization. Its been used the world over many times. I guess some old Nazi Docs made it to NZ huh? Thier idiealogies are alive and well in some I see.


    Again Godwin's Law. And as far as I can tell, there's no New Zealanders in this thread.

    And again: you seem to have had a massive over-reaction after misunderstanding what that paper was about. Again: it said that if you agreed with abortion then it could be argued that in some ways infanticide was the same thing. As I pointed out: anti-abortionists already think this, except in the other direction. As I also pointed out (and you actually agreed): it was a purely intellectual exercise (and intellectuals are the reason you aren't speaking German or Japanese, if we are going to play Godwin) and not advocating a policy. Most normal people have long ago (the paper is over six weeks old, and the press fuss over a month old) filed it under "weird and wrong", or maybe "very interesting, but stupid". Personally I think there's a vast difference between abortion and infanticide, which is called the umbilical cord, but that's my view. Either way I really don't see any point in generating vast amounts of bogus outrage of the a minor paper in a philosophy journal.

    Although past evidence suggests this will rapidly continue turning into another debate on abortion.


    M

  15. #15
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    Re: The slip and slide to infanticide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    ^

    Cute.

    Hey, I heard that Democrats are against the death penalty.

    Well, unless it happens between the point of conception to birth.

    Too bad we can't use a wire coat hanger or dust buster on the people sitting on death row.
    Funny you mention that because there is a link between abortions and reduced crime.


    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian
    Again Godwin's Law. And as far as I can tell, there's no New Zealanders in this thread.

    And again: you seem to have had a massive over-reaction after misunderstanding what that paper was about. Again: it said that if you agreed with abortion then it could be argued that in some ways infanticide was the same thing. As I pointed out: anti-abortionists already think this, except in the other direction. As I also pointed out (and you actually agreed): it was a purely intellectual exercise (and intellectuals are the reason you aren't speaking German or Japanese, if we are going to play Godwin) and not advocating a policy. Most normal people have long ago (the paper is over six weeks old, and the press fuss over a month old) filed it under "weird and wrong", or maybe "very interesting, but stupid". Personally I think there's a vast difference between abortion and infanticide, which is called the umbilical cord, but that's my view. Either way I really don't see any point in generating vast amounts of bogus outrage of the a minor paper in a philosophy journal.

    Although past evidence suggests this will rapidly continue turning into another debate on abortion.
    It's not as if any lawmaker saw this and said we need to write a bill to legalize infanticide. The article is just somebody's extreme opinion. And I'm sure that if you look hard enough, you'll find alot of extreme opinions on the internet.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



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