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  1. #346
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    That's an interesting description of science. Never heard that one before.


    The worthless solar panels and windmills are a nice picture to sucker people into global warming...
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  2. #347
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Thanks. I made a donation based on their calls this administration is anti-science. That is as science as you can get. Cause and effect and conclusion with actions.

    lol, anti-trump. I guess you are admitting trump is anti-science with that one.

    So much more refined than the trump campaign glorifying trolling while hawking product they say is for making liberals upset like sharpie pens and plastic straws. Very presidential.
    That's an interesting description of science. Never heard that one before.
    You know, dutch, this game of stated personal entertainment of yours, where you selectively pull words to control the conversation is becoming tiresome for it is impossible to debate what exists in your mind. I've placed my entire response and bolded the section you feel you wanted to address.

    I gave you only my opinion on a science advocacy group looking for new members in offer to your take this was 'anti-trump' and somehow, for some reason, we should dismiss any opinion from the science advocacy group as 'science'.

    What's your point now?
    That you wish to ignore my entire post and simply throw out some sarcastic comment? Let's be real, you have had no kind words towards me for over a decade. Nor have you ever acknowledged you were wrong using this last exchange of ours as an example.

    So, to be optimistic that you actually might be conversing, I'll add, is your point:
    That science can't observe and then take action accordingly because you have some other opinion?

    I'll let the scientists give you a possible explanation to a possible point you might be making.
    Ask a Scientist: Should Scientists Shy Away from Politics?
    We recently received a comment from Dennis M, a Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) supporter who lives in Chicago, about what he perceives to be a barrier between science and politics. Dennis believes that science and politics are like oil and water and should not mix, and that it is critical that they remain separate.

    “Scientists should not seek approval of their work through politics or politicians. It devalues science,” Dennis wrote. “Political decisions are made differently and scientists make decisions on a different basis. This separation is essential.”

    Dennis’s position provoked some pushback here at UCS, which is, after all, a science advocacy organization. I asked ecologist Anjali Kumar, the head of our scientist and analyst group, to explain the relationship between science and politics as we see it. Prior to joining our staff in June, Anjali was a science and technology policy fellow at the American Association for the Advancement of Science working with the US Agency for International Development, where she managed an international science awards program. She has a Ph.D. in behavioral ecology from the University of Washington.

    EN: Dennis N. says politics and science shouldn’t mix. But aren’t they interrelated? Don’t we want public officials to base their decisions on the scientific evidence?

    AK: Scientists have traditionally been uncomfortable discussing or even acknowledging that science is political, but truth be told, science has long played a vital role in politics.

    The scientific method is commonly viewed as a process of making observations and answering questions. Once scientists ask fundamental questions and develop hypotheses, they gather data and ask whether the collected evidence aligns with their original hypotheses. This process is called ‘the scientific method’ or scientific inquiry. What policymakers decide to do with the evidence-based results is politics.

    Think about it this way: Determining whether toxic emissions from an industrial facility harms public health is scientific inquiry. Deciding what action to take in response to that information is political.

    EN: Keeping science and politics separate doesn’t seem possible.

    AK: Science and politics are interconnected—there is no separation. The more we understand how they work together, the more powerful scientists’ voices will be. Science creates knowledge, and with that knowledge, there is power. That power can be—and should be—used to inform policies that protect the safety, health and well-being of the people, organisms and ecosystems of the United States.
    While the discussion above is about 'traditionally', we don't live in times of tradition, do we?
    We live in the times of trump. The conversation you and I were having was about politicizing science.

    Actions by science advocacy groups will be the reaction to a trump administration need to politicize science.
    A call for membership in an advocacy group will be made using examples of trump because of his administration.

    My use of their original post stands because as scientists, they gave us an accurate opinion of the impact of 'politicizing science' and you have not given us a countering opinion of beyond 'anti-trump' and 'never heard that before'.
    Last edited by otoc; 09-15-2019 at 09:04 AM. Reason: took out dupe word 'might'
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  3. #348
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    The worthless solar panels and windmills are a nice picture to sucker people into global warming...
    You mean this post?

    Benefits of Renewable Energy Use
    Wind turbines and solar panels are an increasingly common sight. But why? What are the benefits of renewable energies—and how do they improve our health, environment, and economy?

    This page explores the many positive impacts of clean energy, including the benefits of wind, solar, geothermal, hydroelectric, and biomass. For more information on their negative impacts—including effective solutions to avoid, minimize, or mitigate—see our page on The Environmental Impacts of Renewable Energy Technologies.

    Less global warming
    Human activity is overloading our atmosphere with carbon dioxide and other global warming emissions. These gases act like a blanket, trapping heat. The result is a web of significant and harmful impacts, from stronger, more frequent storms, to drought, sea level rise, and extinction.

    In the United States, about 29 percent of global warming emissions come from our electricity sector. Most of those emissions come from fossil fuels like coal and natural gas [1, 2].

    What is CO2e?
    Carbon dioxide (CO2) is the most prevalent greenhouse gas, but other air pollutants—such as methane—also cause global warming. Different energy sources produce different amounts of these pollutants. To make comparisons easier, we use a carbon dioxide equivalent, or CO2e—the amount of carbon dioxide required to produce an equivalent amount of warming.

    In contrast, most renewable energy sources produce little to no global warming emissions. Even when including “life cycle” emissions of clean energy (ie, the emissions from each stage of a technology’s life—manufacturing, installation, operation, decommissioning), the global warming emissions associated with renewable energy are minimal [3].

    Improved public health
    The air and water pollution emitted by coal and natural gas plants is linked with breathing problems, neurological damage, heart attacks, cancer, premature death, and a host of other serious problems. The pollution affects everyone: one Harvard University study estimated the life cycle costs and public health effects of coal to be an estimated $74.6 billion every year. That’s equivalent to 4.36 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity produced—about one-third of the average electricity rate for a typical US home [6].

    Most of these negative health impacts come from air and water pollution that clean energy technologies simply don’t produce. Wind, solar, and hydroelectric systems generate electricity with no associated air pollution emissions. Geothermal and biomass systems emit some air pollutants, though total air emissions are generally much lower than those of coal- and natural gas-fired power plants.

    In addition, wind and solar energy require essentially no water to operate and thus do not pollute water resources or strain supplies by competing with agriculture, drinking water, or other important water needs. In contrast, fossil fuels can have a significant impact on water resources: both coal mining and natural gas drilling can pollute sources of drinking water, and all thermal power plants, including those powered by coal, gas, and oil, withdraw and consume water for cooling.

    Inexhaustible energy
    Strong winds, sunny skies, abundant plant matter, heat from the earth, and fast-moving water can each provide a vast and constantly replenished supply of energy. A relatively small fraction of US electricity currently comes from these sources, but that could change: studies have repeatedly shown that renewable energy can provide a significant share of future electricity needs, even after accounting for potential constraints [9].

    In fact, a major government-sponsored study found that clean energy could contribute somewhere between three and 80 times its 2013 levels, depending on assumptions [8]. And the previously mentioned NREL study found that renewable energy could comfortably provide up to 80 percent of US electricity by 2050.

    Jobs and other economic benefits
    Compared with fossil fuel technologies, which are typically mechanized and capital intensive, the renewable energy industry is more labor intensive. Solar panels need humans to install them; wind farms need technicians for maintenance.

    This means that, on average, more jobs are created for each unit of electricity generated from renewable sources than from fossil fuels.

    Stable energy prices
    Renewable energy is providing affordable electricity across the country right now, and can help stabilize energy prices in the future.

    Although renewable facilities require upfront investments to build, they can then operate at very low cost (for most clean energy technologies, the “fuel” is free). As a result, renewable energy prices can be very stable over time.

    Moreover, the costs of renewable energy technologies have declined steadily, and are projected to drop even more. For example, the average price to install solar dropped more than 70 percent between 2010 and 2017 [20]. The cost of generating electricity from wind dropped 66 percent between 2009 and 2016 [21]. Costs will likely decline even further as markets mature and companies increasingly take advantage of economies of scale.

    In contrast, fossil fuel prices can vary dramatically and are prone to substantial price swings. For example, there was a rapid increase in US coal prices due to rising global demand before 2008, then a rapid fall after 2008 when global demands declined [23]. Likewise, natural gas prices have fluctuated greatly since 2000 [25].

    Reliability and resilience
    Wind and solar are less prone to large-scale failure because they are distributed and modular. Distributed systems are spread out over a large geographical area, so a severe weather event in one location will not cut off power to an entire region. Modular systems are composed of numerous individual wind turbines or solar arrays. Even if some of the equipment in the system is damaged, the rest can typically continue to operate.

    For example, Hurricane Sandy damaged fossil fuel-dominated electric generation and distribution systems in New York and New Jersey and left millions of people without power. In contrast, renewable energy projects in the Northeast weathered Hurricane Sandy with minimal damage or disruption [25].

    Water scarcity is another risk for non-renewable power plants. Coal, nuclear, and many natural gas plants depend on having sufficient water for cooling, which means that severe droughts and heat waves can put electricity generation at risk. Wind and solar photovoltaic systems do not require water to generate electricity and can operate reliably in conditions that may otherwise require closing a fossil fuel-powered plant. (For more information, see How it Works: Water for Electricity.)

    The risk of disruptive events will also increase in the future as droughts, heat waves, more intense storms, and increasingly severe wildfires become more frequent due to global warming—increasing the need for resilient, clean technologies.
    Doesn't seem worthless at all.

    How about explaining your point?
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  4. #349
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Fake or Fact

    House 'Justice for Warriors' Caucus set to meet with soldiers convicted of murder while in combat
    Sep. 15, 2019 - 5:21 - Louisiana Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert and former Army National Guard Sgt. Derrick Miller on the group's upcoming trip to Leavenworth Prison.

    https://video.foxnews.com/v/60863833...#sp=show-clips

    Notice all this kind of stuff started happening with Obama’s Rules of Engagement and his handpicked General Officers... It’s all politically correct nonsense... There’s other examples of politically correct nonsense that hindered troop readiness and the overall war fighting ability during the Obama years... It’s not hard to figure out what happened to the military during the Obama years... Depleted equipment such as fighter jets and all kinds of armored vehicles... Women in combat, transsexuals and sex change surgery... Not good in fact awful...
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  5. #350
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Fake or Fact

    House 'Justice for Warriors' Caucus set to meet with soldiers convicted of murder while in combat
    Sep. 15, 2019 - 5:21 - Louisiana Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert and former Army National Guard Sgt. Derrick Miller on the group's upcoming trip to Leavenworth Prison.

    https://video.foxnews.com/v/60863833...#sp=show-clips

    Notice all this kind of stuff started happening with Obama’s Rules of Engagement and his handpicked General Officers... It’s all politically correct nonsense... There’s other examples of politically correct nonsense that hindered troop readiness and the overall war fighting ability during the Obama years... It’s not hard to figure out what happened to the military during the Obama years... Depleted equipment such as fighter jets and all kinds of armored vehicles... Women in combat, transsexuals and sex change surgery... Not good in fact awful...
    How about something other than a Fox video to work with and transcribe, for I don't see any relationship between 'soldiers convicted of murder while in combat' and...
    'all this kind of stuff started happening with Obama’s Rules of Engagement and his handpicked General Officers... It’s all politically correct nonsense... There’s other examples of politically correct nonsense that hindered troop readiness and the overall war fighting ability during the Obama years... It’s not hard to figure out what happened to the military during the Obama years... Depleted equipment such as fighter jets and all kinds of armored vehicles... Women in combat, transsexuals and sex change surgery... Not good in fact awful...'
    In fact, nothing in the press release of Justice for Warriors mentions Obama, when this problem of 'prosecutors more concerned with career advancement' started, or any of your long list of issues.

    It doesn't even mention that trump, not obama, is now the leader of the military under the executive branch.
    REPS. DUNCAN HUNTER AND LOUIE GOHMERT LAUNCH “JUSTICE FOR WARRIORS CAUCUS” IN THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
    WASHINGTON, D.C. – Congressmen Duncan Hunter (CA-50) and Louie Gohmert (TX-01) announced the launch of the “Justice for Warriors Caucus.” This caucus is solely dedicated to issues related to accused or imprisoned combat warriors, who fought for our freedom, and have been unfairly treated by the military justice system. Additionally, it will serve as an informative group aimed at educating other Members of Congress on this very critical issue.


    “America’s bravest, our nation’s finest, are unfortunately caught in a military justice system that has an ongoing systemic problem of prosecutors more concerned with career advancement and sensational headlines than following the rule of law and providing the constitutional right of due process for our warfighters. They deserve better. The Justice for Warriors Caucus is an opportunity for Members of Congress to learn more about these types of cases, advocate when appropriate and legislate when necessary. It is tragic that such action would even be necessary, but it obviously is and no effort is too small when it comes to protecting America’s warriors.” – Rep. Duncan Hunter
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  6. #351
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    How about something other than a Fox video to work with and transcribe, for I don't see any relationship between 'soldiers convicted of murder while in combat' and...


    In fact, nothing in the press release of Justice for Warriors mentions Obama, when this problem of 'prosecutors more concerned with career advancement' started, or any of your long list of issues.

    It doesn't even mention that trump, not obama, is now the leader of the military under the executive branch.

    I wouldn’t expect you to see the connection and relationship... In case you don’t know War is all about legalized murder.... I’ve been through that hold your fire until they shoot at you, it’s craziness... I’ve been through bombing halts and ceasefires that didn’t do a damn thing except get many more young men killed... I’ve been through being called a baby killer... I’ve been through phony accusations of atrocities... Ask your hero Joltin’ John Kerry... Killing the enemy isn’t a crime it’s a dirty damn job... No politically correct tears here... The thought of a politically correct war makes me gag ... Btw ... It all started with Bush, Obama and LBJ... Many of the Generals of today including Mattis (liberal politician) could be generalized as something on the order of female genitalia... Generals Officers are usually half war fighters and half politician. If they don’t play politics they can’t pin on a star...
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  7. #352
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    You know, dutch, this game of stated personal entertainment of yours, where you selectively pull words to control the conversation is becoming tiresome for it is impossible to debate what exists in your mind. I've placed my entire response and bolded the section you feel you wanted to address.

    I gave you only my opinion on a science advocacy group looking for new members in offer to your take this was 'anti-trump' and somehow, for some reason, we should dismiss any opinion from the science advocacy group as 'science'.

    What's your point now?
    That you wish to ignore my entire post and simply throw out some sarcastic comment? Let's be real, you have had no kind words towards me for over a decade. Nor have you ever acknowledged you were wrong using this last exchange of ours as an example.

    So, to be optimistic that you actually might be conversing, I'll add, is your point:
    That science can't observe and then take action accordingly because you have some other opinion?

    I'll let the scientists give you a possible explanation to a possible point you might be making.
    Ask a Scientist: Should Scientists Shy Away from Politics?


    While the discussion above is about 'traditionally', we don't live in times of tradition, do we?
    We live in the times of trump. The conversation you and I were having was about politicizing science.

    Actions by science advocacy groups will be the reaction to a trump administration need to politicize science.
    A call for membership in an advocacy group will be made using examples of trump because of his administration.

    My use of their original post stands because as scientists, they gave us an accurate opinion of the impact of 'politicizing science' and you have not given us a countering opinion of beyond 'anti-trump' and 'never heard that before'.
    Essentially, your rebuttal to the "science site" being suspect because they have an anti-Trump petition is an extensive essay that includes an opinion you found on the internet that the scientists should get political because of... wait for it... [drumroll]... Trump.

    I'll take that as an assertion that OrangeManBad. We can at least agree on their purpose.

    And excuse me for being concise, but pulling quotes from your screeds are only intended to simplify the discussion. Remember, being a student of S.I. Hayakawa, I'm kind of averse to lengthy, vapid, word salads.

    Your new trend of quoting of yourself, however... that's just funny.

  8. #353
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    You mean this post?

    Benefits of Renewable Energy Use

    Doesn't seem worthless at all.

    How about explaining your point?
    Why then, do most installations require subsidies and/or the force of law to find success?

  9. #354
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Why then, do most installations require subsidies and/or the force of law to find success?
    Not only do they nearly all fall flat on their faces minus the subsidies or force of law (cuz gubberment has such a great track record picking winners and losers)... lets not forget the process to manufacture these devices for "renewable" energy are neither earth friendly or "clean". From solar panels to the rare earth minerals... very dirty process. I hear getting rid of the old blades on those really big bird choppers is near impossible too.

    From the linky dinky provided above.. their #1 benefit is less global warming. This union of scientists seems to be pretty anti-science. We'll get less of something there ain't got none of to begin with... warming that is... lol.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  10. #355
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote from deleted post removed


    M





    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/MN

    Two Democratic Party senators.... Five out of eight congressmen democrats... keep up the good work ya-all....
    Last edited by Meridian; 09-16-2019 at 03:44 PM.
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  11. #356
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    come on tucker there was no mass voter fraud. trump's commission(3 to 5 million illegal voters) was disbanded because of lack of evidence.

    Member Of Disbanded Trump Voter Fraud Commission Speaks Outt

    the only voter fraud using vote harvesting was in north carolina and that was by republicans. he's facing two counts of felony obstruction of justice, perjury, solicitation to commit perjury, conspiracy to obstruct justice and illegal possession of absentee ballots.
    he received $84,000, not bad for a few months of voter fraud.

    Top North Carolina election official alleges illegal ballot harvesting effort in key House race

    bb

  12. #357
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by baghdad bob View Post
    come on tucker there was no mass voter fraud. trump's commission(3 to 5 million illegal voters) was disbanded because of lack of evidence.

    Member Of Disbanded Trump Voter Fraud Commission Speaks Outt

    the only voter fraud using vote harvesting was in north carolina and that was by republicans. he's facing two counts of felony obstruction of justice, perjury, solicitation to commit perjury, conspiracy to obstruct justice and illegal possession of absentee ballots.
    he received $84,000, not bad for a few months of voter fraud.

    Top North Carolina election official alleges illegal ballot harvesting effort in key House race

    bb

    Ballot harvesting bounty: How Dems apparently used election law change to rout California Republicans

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bal...ia-republicans

    Pay attention Bobby in Kalifornia there is no $84,000 fine and no second election. The democrats took all the seats except for seven. Many traditional conservatives were dumped in the gutter by thousands of late arriving mail-in ballots.

    Btw... Did you happen to watch

    The House Judiciary Committee's first hearing as part of its•Trump•impeachment investigation•descended into chaos Tuesday as Democrats clashed with a combative Lewandowski, trading insults and accusations with the former Trump campaign manager, who refused to answer many of their questions.
    All the elements of Wily Coyote, Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse, Goofy, Porky and Daffy....


    Doomsdays that didn’t happen: Think tank compiles decades’ worth of dire climate predictions

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fai...ge-predictions

    Many predictions of doomsday all fake... One might get the idea it’s all a big Globalist scam designed to fool the foolish sheeple... Shall we play the old internet start a rumor game. Rumors have an uncanny way of becoming truth given the time to spread... I wonder how many billionaires made the money they horde by fooling those who are easily fooled (Global Paranoia). Mr Gore for example flies in private jets wherever he goes... The fools made him happy, fat and very wealthy.... Don’t be a socialist sucker...
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  13. #358
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Best news I've read in a long time.

    The Trump administration on Wednesday revoked an Obama-era waiver allowing California to set its own standards for automobile emissions, a move which President Trump claims will lead to "significantly more jobs" and safer, less costly vehicles.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...ions-standards

    This will put a nice dent in our traitor governor Polis's plans to do the same here.

    MAGA!
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

    Edmund Burke

    RIP PCPER TLR
    7-14-19

  14. #359
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    UK gambling site has more bets for Hillary Clinton winning Dem nomination than anyone actually running

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gam...tually-running

    Maybe the Brits are on to something here. Me thinks the current democratic party Mob is in big trouble they’ve moved far left of Hillary. They’re so far left they can’t be seen on the horizon... A safe bet would be Hillary as a three time loser... They Dems just ain’t got anybody that can beat Trump... It’s the economy, it’s jobs, it’s money to spend at Walmart and Costco, it’s money to buy new cars... Stupid! .... The only way the democrats could possibly win is election fraud on a massive scale...
    Thank A Democrat... Vote DNC

    AOC... New Leader DNC ....

  15. #360
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    Re: What Is 2019-2020 Reality Fake OR Fact

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    UK gambling site has more bets for Hillary Clinton winning Dem nomination than anyone actually running

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gam...tually-running

    Maybe the Brits are on to something here. Me thinks the current democratic party Mob is in big trouble they’ve moved far left of Hillary. They’re so far left they can’t be seen on the horizon... A safe bet would be Hillary as a three time loser... They Dems just ain’t got anybody that can beat Trump... It’s the economy, it’s jobs, it’s money to spend at Walmart and Costco, it’s money to buy new cars... Stupid! .... The only way the democrats could possibly win is election fraud on a massive scale...

    I could be the only person in history to be banned from a dead forum while it was in hospice...

    Even though it’s dead I’m still banned, still locked out...

    I demand the Noble Prize for Irony...

    A genius couldn’t have planned it better...
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