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Thread: The Iraq War.

  1. #1
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    The Iraq War.

    I'm just curious as to why a lot of people who supported the iraq war under irrefutable conditions now support Trump, a person who was vehemently against the Iraq war.

    It's especially troubling considering the money spent, lives lost, and the overall movement calling the opponents of the Iraq War "Anti-american"" - but these very same people are now vehemently supporting Trump.

    I'm just curious as to why people have such short memories, and why supporters of the current President, have suddenly changed their views. Where are all the supporters of the Iraq War now. And why aren't you against President Trump ?

    Do you realize how much we put into it it, do you realize that most people who voted Trump supported the Iraq war. Do you realize how contradictory those view are ?

  2. #2
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Iím sure you remember the day two big airlines crashed into two tall buildings in New York. A president named Bush vowed to get the perpetrators. War was authorized by democrats and republicans. Not long after that the democrats said I was for it before I was against it, you know how politics works. After years of war in a Iraq there was this thing called the Surge eventually it-lead to a war win. There was a president named Obama he pulled all the troops out of Iraq. That gave birth to ISIS. Very much radical Islamic Terrorism, torture and killing. A president named Trump destroyed most of ISIS. He started withdrawing military forces from that area of the world much to the dismay of the democrats and establisment.

    Me Iím not a big fan of war. I would get all American armed forces out of that area of the world. Itís a hornetís nest. I would deliver all messages via carpet bombing and MOAB...
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  3. #3
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    I’m sure you remember the day two big airlines crashed into two tall buildings in New York. A president named Bush vowed to get the perpetrators. War was authorized by democrats and republicans. Not long after that the democrats said I was for it before I was against it, you know how politics works. After years of war in a Iraq there was this thing called the Surge eventually it-lead to a war win. There was a president named Obama he pulled all the troops out of Iraq. That gave birth to ISIS. Very much radical Islamic Terrorism, torture and killing. A president named Trump destroyed most of ISIS. He started withdrawing military forces from that area of the world much to the dismay of the democrats and establisment.

    Me I’m not a big fan of war. I would get all American armed forces out of that area of the world. It’s a hornet’s nest. I would deliver all messages via carpet bombing and MOAB...

    1. Obama never pulled all troops out of iraq, we always had a presence.

    2. The Democrats and Republicans both voted for the war (in iraq) Does not fly anymore, since the Democract that was elected for PRESIDENT for -TWO terms- voted against the Iraq war

    3. Iraq had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11

    4. The point I was making in the first place is, why support Trump as a supporter of the IRAQ war, were you asleep, did you not realize the billions of dollars we spent, and the endless arguments you all made FOR it, yet you support trump. And i know specifically you were a huge supporter of the IRAQ war, I''m wondering about the overal contradiction, in your mindset - which you have completly dodged.

    You cannot justify the absolute ridiculous amount or resources that went into iraq and then support a president who was vehemently against it the whole way in good logical consistency
    Last edited by Computerwiz; 10-06-2019 at 03:25 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by Computerwiz View Post
    1. Obama never pulled all troops out of iraq, we always had a presence.

    2. The Democrats and Republicans both voted for the war (in iraq) Does not fly anymore, since the Democract that was elected for PRESIDENT for -TWO terms- voted against the Iraq war

    3. Iraq had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11

    4. The point I was making in the first place is, why support Trump as a supporter of the IRAQ war, were you asleep, did you not realize the billions of dollars we spent, and the endless arguments you all made FOR it, yet you support trump. And i know specifically you were a huge supporter of the IRAQ war, I''m wondering about the overal contradiction, in your mindset - which you have completly dodged.

    You cannot justify the absolute ridiculous amount or resources that went into iraq and then support a president who was vehemently against it the whole way in good logical consistency
    Youíre wrong Obama withdrew the remaining forces from Iraq in December 2011. The reason Iraq was invaded in the first place is Saddam Hussein was a big supporter of Al Qaeda just like Iran. Al Qaeda was thought to be behind the attack on the trade center buildings. If Obama was President why didnít he get us out of Iraq earlier? If I remember right Obama took office in 2009. Trump inherited Obamaís mess heís the one that destroyed ISIL. Obama and Bush depleted and practically destroyed our military. Trump is the one that created the budget to make our military strong again... Itís not a good idea to rewrite history. Your post is misleading nonsense...
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  5. #5
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Youíre wrong Obama withdrew the remaining forces from Iraq in December 2011. The reason Iraq was invaded in the first place is Saddam Hussein was a big supporter of Al Qaeda just like Iran. Al Qaeda was thought to be behind the attack on the trade center buildings. If Obama was President why didnít he get us out of Iraq earlier? If I remember right Obama took office in 2009. Trump inherited Obamaís mess heís the one that destroyed ISIL. Obama and Bush depleted and practically destroyed our military. Trump is the one that created the budget to make our military strong again... Itís not a good idea to rewrite history. Your post is misleading nonsense...
    Let's stop for a second. 2 points you made.

    Iím sure you remember the day two big airlines crashed into two tall buildings in New York. A president named Bush vowed to get the perpetrators.
    The reason Iraq was invaded in the first place is Saddam Hussein was a big supporter of Al Qaeda just like Iran.
    NO no no. Computerwiz is correct. We invaded a different country. You are spinning webs.
    Even Bush made it clear it had nothing to do with Obama.
    George Bush last night admitted that Saddam Hussein had no hand in the 9/11 terror attacks, but he asked Americans to support a war in Iraq that he said was the defining struggle of our age.
    On a day of sorrow and remembrance, beginning with a moment of silence at Ground Zero and ending in a prime time TV address from the Oval Office, Mr Bush tried to steel Americans for the long war ahead against al-Qaida which he described as an epochal struggle.
    His speech was also focused on November's congressional elections where the Republicans face a groundswell of discontent about the war in Iraq.
    The president conceded some crucial ideological ground, formally disavowing the neo-conservative accusation that Saddam had played a role in the attacks on September 11 2001. But he was unapologetic about the decision to invade Iraq.
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    "I am often asked why we are in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was not responsible for the 9/11 attacks," Mr Bush said. "The answer is that the regime of Saddam Hussein was a clear threat. My administration, the Congress, and the United Nations saw the threat - and after 9/11, Saddam's regime posed a risk that the world could not afford to take.
    "The world is safer because Saddam Hussein is no longer in power."
    Of course that threat was all about wmds that the bush administration knew the locations of and they were never found, but no. Iraq had nothing to do with al-Qaida.

    Now, Isis and this
    Trump inherited Obamaís mess heís the one that destroyed ISIL.
    That was all about Iraq before Obama came in.
    ISIS' beginnings can be traced to the Second Gulf War in 2003, when the U.S., along with a small coalition of other nations, invaded Iraq and toppled dictator Saddam Hussein.
    Amongst the diverse insurgency fighting coalition forces and new Iraqi government was the extremist Islamic group al-Qaida in Iraq.
    ISIS was formed out of the al-Qaida affiliate in April of last year and led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a mysterious jihadist who is believed to have been born in Iraq in 1971.
    If anything, Obama inherited Bush's mess.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  6. #6
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Beat me to it. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. That was funded by the Saudis, flown by mostly Saudis, and organised by a renegade Saudi pushing a form of Islam close to that of the Saudis. Iraq was more or less secular, which made then an object of hatred for Al Qaeda, so co-operation was never going to happen, even against a common enemy.

    The main reason for the Second Iraq War was the failure to remove Saddam after the first one. Unfortunately planning never went any further than "remove Saddam". No-one stopped to wonder what would replace him, or to look at the tangled mess of internal politics in Iraq that Saddam had suppressed by killing people from pretty much every grouping. So when Saddam was removed there was an obvious power vacuum combined with various forced trying to split their group off from the whole. Something which was fairly predictable.

  7. #7
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Youíre wrong Obama withdrew the remaining forces from Iraq in December 2011.
    Now let's go to a 3rd point you made. Computerwiz is correct again, but I don't know what web you need to spin this time.

    Full withdrawal (2011)
    See also: U.S.ĖIraq Status of Forces Agreement
    With the collapse of discussions about extending the stay of U.S. troops,[35][36] President Obama announced the full withdrawal of troops from Iraq, as previously scheduled, on 21 October 2011.[36] The U.S. retained an embassy in Baghdad[36] with some 17,000 personnel,[37] consulates in Basra, Mosul and Kirkuk, which have been allocated more than 1,000 staff each,[37] and between 4,000 and 5,000 defense contractors.[36] President Obama and al-Maliki outlined a broad agenda for post-war cooperation without American troops in Iraq during a joint press conference on 12 December 2011 at the White House. This agenda included cooperation on energy, trade and education as well as cooperation in security, counter-terrorism, economic development and strengthening Iraq's institutions. Both leaders said their countries would maintain strong security, diplomatic and economic ties after the last U.S. combat forces withdraw.[38][39]

    President Barack Obama paid tribute to the troops who served in Iraq on 14 December 2011, at the Fort Bragg military base in North Carolina. As the last of the American troops prepared to exit Iraq, he said the United States was leaving behind a "sovereign, stable and self-reliant" Iraq.[40] On 15 December, an American military ceremony was held in Baghdad putting a formal end to the U.S. mission in Iraq.[41][42][43] The last 500 soldiers left Iraq on the morning of 18 December 2011.[1][2][3][4][5][6]
    Obama did what computerwiz wrote.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  8. #8
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Now let's go to a 3rd point you made. Computerwiz is correct again, but I don't know what web you need to spin this time.


    Obama did what computerwiz wrote.
    The United States invasion of Afghanistan occurred after the September 11 attacks in late 2001, supported by close US allies. The conflict is also known as the U.S. war in Afghanistan. Its public aims were to dismantle al-Qaeda, and to deny it a safe base of operations in Afghanistan by removing the Taliban from power.


    The United States invasion of Afghanistan started on October 7, 2001. The United States sought to remove the Taliban from power as they were hosting al-Qaeda terrorists and camps, who were the main suspects of the September 11 attacks.

    War in Iraq 2003 they are connected even if you donít want to believe it...

    Iím not going to waste my time on endless C&P...
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  9. #9
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    The United States invasion of Afghanistan occurred after the September 11 attacks in late 2001, supported by close US allies. The conflict is also known as the U.S. war in Afghanistan. Its public aims were to dismantle al-Qaeda, and to deny it a safe base of operations in Afghanistan by removing the Taliban from power.


    The United States invasion of Afghanistan started on October 7, 2001. The United States sought to remove the Taliban from power as they were hosting al-Qaeda terrorists and camps, who were the main suspects of the September 11 attacks.

    War in Iraq 2003 they are connected even if you don’t want to believe it...

    I’m not going to waste my time on endless C&P...
    I'm trying to keep the focus on Iraq, which was the crux of my original point. If you're going to somehow link the war in Afghanistan - to Iraq, that is not a productive, accurate,point worth expounding on.
    Last edited by Computerwiz; 10-06-2019 at 07:07 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    ^^^ Why go there tucker?? You'll never get the left here to account for their party's near unanimous vote authorizing war.. they were lied to by the guy we're told by them was the dumbest prez ever and an evil genius concurrently. Neat trick eh?

    As far as Obama not pulling all our forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan... again. Let the same brain trust spin what void ISIS filled.

    CW why did your side vote for Obama's second term? He had Libya, Syria & was zapping folks with drones (US citizens to boot) all over the globe. Hillary would have been a continuation of his policies. Thought your side was supposedly against those types of infarctions?

    This post will self destruct by moderation in 10 secs.. because facts.
    did you read my post at all. Every senator on the democratic side who voted for the war and ran for President literally LOST. And the one who WON -won- *two* consecutive terms as President - voted against the war in iraq -. Which one represents the party more lol. Yes FACTS
    Last edited by Computerwiz; 10-06-2019 at 07:12 PM.

  11. #11
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Not a single one of the trump supporters have addressed my literal point.
    Last edited by Computerwiz; 10-06-2019 at 08:09 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    To your literal point.

    Because we are not the war mongers your party thinks we are.

    Because we are not single issue voters.

    Now respond to my literal questions.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #13
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Because you seem manifestly incapable of making a point without added insults, your post in question was deleted; so he isn't going to be able to. If you want to try again in an adult manner then maybe he can address them.

  14. #14
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    If life were so simple as single issues, one could wonder why CWiz doesn't support Trump. After all, they both feel the same with regards to the Iraq war.

    Indeed, it appears not much has changed in the years since CWiz last posted here until now. We get statements such as this: "I'm just curious as to why people have such short memories, and why supporters of the current President, have suddenly changed their views."

    Accuse others of defects, such as short memories, and inaccurately characterize them by stating that they've changed their views. Neither statement is necessarily accurate, certainly not proven. I think this is what those with formal debate education refer to as a straw man.

    Personally I think you will find a whole lot of people whose views of the (second) Iraq war have changed between when that conflict began and now. There is much known now that was at best unclear then. As for Trump and the second Iraq war, IMHO his view on that conflict has absolutely nothing to do with what actions he does and doesn't take today with regards to life in America today and in the future. Trying to pin down his supporters based upon a single issue like this is rather pointless.

    How about you address his actions and/or actions of his supporters? Regardless of your personal views, I'm sure there is material there worthy of discussion.

  15. #15
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    Re: The Iraq War.

    Quote Originally Posted by myv65 View Post
    If life were so simple as single issues, one could wonder why CWiz doesn't support Trump. After all, they both feel the same with regards to the Iraq war.
    When I was here many years ago, it was the hot topic, and opinions on both sides were strong - this was also reflected in the country in general - You don't think it's weird that people have somehow forgotten - the last full term President afterall was partly elected because of his stance on the Iraq war. It's weird that you have right wing personalities suddenly supporting a President, whom they would have inferred as a traitor during the Iraq war ( though trump wasn't really vocal enough to be noticed at the time)

    Indeed, it appears not much has changed in the years since CWiz last posted here until now. We get statements such as this: "I'm just curious as to why people have such short memories, and why supporters of the current President, have suddenly changed their views."

    Accuse others of defects, such as short memories, and inaccurately characterize them by stating that they've changed their views. Neither statement is necessarily accurate, certainly not proven. I think this is what those with formal debate education refer to as a straw man.
    It's not really a strawman as well. It was more of an invitation to explain, i know that many of the conservative members here still support Trump, but I'm wondering why that certain issue never came up. It's like we invaded a country and killed, spent millions of dollars, and was heavily defended and such - then as the coverage of Iraq fades... its like there is absolutely no discussion of Trumps dissent during that period

    Personally I think you will find a whole lot of people whose views of the (second) Iraq war have changed between when that conflict began and now. There is much known now that was at best unclear then. As for Trump and the second Iraq war, IMHO his view on that conflict has absolutely nothing to do with what actions he does and doesn't take today with regards to life in America today and in the future. Trying to pin down his supporters based upon a single issue like this is rather pointless.

    How about you address his actions and/or actions of his supporters? Regardless of your personal views, I'm sure there is material there worthy of discussion.
    Some views have evolved, things have changed, but your views during the conflict will remain the same. This post was an invitation to explain and I still see a few are still as strong about their views of the Iraq war. I see some have

    " we are not single issue voters""

    I guess my problem with that, this isn't a single issue like whether people should be drug tested for welfar. It was a pretty substantial issue that effected a whole region, our spending, and our american citizens. I just find it odd how people forget how fervant they were during the climax of the war, and how quickly we forget. If I have made any point with this, it was that.

    If life were so simple as single issues, one could wonder why CWiz doesn't support Trump. After all, they both feel the same with regards to the Iraq war.
    It's not even so much as supporting/notsupporting, its as if the issue was forgotten completely. I wouldn't support Trump because there are others who also didn't support the war. If he was the only one running with that position, I just wouldn't vote. And lets say, Bernie Sanders was running and he talked about supporting the Iraq war, that would COMPLETELY change my view about him, and I would struggle with it, and i would be vocal about that
    Last edited by Computerwiz; 10-08-2019 at 07:12 PM.

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