The Lightning RoundIf you're looking for a highly charged debate, this is the place to find it. But be forewarned, rules infractions are taken very seriously here.
Innocent until proven guilty.. Thats the American Way!!
Yes, 9/11 was tragedy, but that is the price we pay for the liberties that we have as a Americans. Terrible things happen every day, and 9/11 is no different than any of them.
It WAS a tragedy that happened 8 years ago. There comes a time to move on in life, we shouldn't live in sorrow or fear because of this. Do you think that people stopped driving cars when we had our first fatal accident? 9/11 could have been prevented by fairly simple means. We don't need patriot acts, torture camps, and big brother to prevent terrorism. I would just as soon forget about 9/11 because this country has only changed for the worse because of it. Bravery is not torture, bravery is not sacrificing freedoms for safety, and it is most certainly not America anymore.
__________________
"I sincerely believe, that banking establishments
are more dangerous than standing armies; and
that the principle of spending money to be paid
by posterity, under the name of funding, is but
swindling futurity on a large scale." Thomas Jefferson.
^^^ If 3,000 people would have died in the first automobile accident, it would have changed things quite a bit. Consider what happened to zeppelin travel after the Hindenberg blew up.
A bigger outcry when the first granny was searched for bombs would have been helpful. I blame the politically correct lack of profiling and other government homogenized tactics as anything else.
It WAS a tragedy that happened 8 years ago. There comes a time to move on in life, we shouldn't live in sorrow or fear because of this. Do you think that people stopped driving cars when we had our first fatal accident? 9/11 could have been prevented by fairly simple means. We don't need patriot acts, torture camps, and big brother to prevent terrorism. I would just as soon forget about 9/11 because this country has only changed for the worse because of it. Bravery is not torture, bravery is not sacrificing freedoms for safety, and it is most certainly not America anymore.
You don’t think it was an attack on the United States?
Was Pearl Harbor just a tragedy?
Were Hitler’s death camps just a tragedy?
You get the idea…
Nobody is saying you have to live in fear and sorrow what they are saying is it would be kind of nice if we could prevent the next 9/11.
Quote:
Bravery is not torture, bravery is not sacrificing freedoms for safety, and it is most certainly not America anymore.
Bravery is not standing idly by while thousands of people die because of a lack of proper precautions. Bravery is not forgetting lessons learned. Bravery is not putting political correctness above safety.
Tell us about all the freedoms you’ve lost and how it affects your life. Tell us about all of this torture you speak of.
Hell I think we’ve lost more freedoms in the last 9 months than we did in the previous 8 years.
Bravery is not standing idly by while thousands of people die because of a lack of proper precautions. Bravery is not forgetting lessons learned. Bravery is not putting political correctness above safety.
Tell us about all the freedoms you’ve lost and how it affects your life. Tell us about all of this torture you speak of.
Hell I think we’ve lost more freedoms in the last 9 months than we did in the previous 8 years.
Tell us about the freedoms we lost in the last 9 months.... Please do. I don't think Obama's administration concocted the Patriot Act. I don't think Obama's administration ok'd waterboarding tactics and sending gitmo prisoners to countries that allow torture.......
there are much more effective and better ways.
The point is, the actions that we, as a country have taken are the laying the foundation for future constriction that can be enacted on its citizens, not the enemy. If you're all for that.... not everyone's perfect...
^^^ If 3,000 people would have died in the first automobile accident, it would have changed things quite a bit. Consider what happened to zeppelin travel after the Hindenberg blew up.
People didn't stop flying in passenger airliners, nor vacate tall building due to 9/11. I'd be willing to be that more Americans have died in auto accidents than terrorist attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchcedar
A bigger outcry when the first granny was searched for bombs would have been helpful. I blame the politically correct lack of profiling and other government homogenized tactics as anything else.
Explain politically correct lack of profiling please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker
You don’t think it was an attack on the United States?
Was Pearl Harbor just a tragedy?
Were Hitler’s death camps just a tragedy?
You get the idea…
Nobody is saying you have to live in fear and sorrow what they are saying is it would be kind of nice if we could prevent the next 9/11.
You could prevent alot of things, but at what cost? If we can spend billions of dollars on war because of the 3,000 lives lost on 9/11 than why can't we spend a dime on national healthcare for the 18,000 deaths per year?
Risks are a part of living, you can't make everything 100% safe or foolproof.
The goal of terrorists is to spread fear; and they accomplished that very well thanks to Fox News, and the Bush administration.
Yes 9/11 was an attack on U.S. soil, but how are the 3,000 deaths that occured on 9/11 any different than the 3,000 deaths that occurred in the last month? We haven't even forgotten about WWII yet; We still have troops stationed in Germany for ****s sake!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker
Bravery is not standing idly by while thousands of people die because of a lack of proper precautions. Bravery is not forgetting lessons learned. Bravery is not putting political correctness above safety.
What lesson did we learn from 9/11?
How did we put political correctness above safety?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker
Tell us about all the freedoms you’ve lost and how it affects your life. Tell us about all of this torture you speak of.
Ever read the patriot act? It affects all of our lives.
And don't pretend to be unaware of the torture when •••• Cheney admits to authorizing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker
Hell I think we’ve lost more freedoms in the last 9 months than we did in the previous 8 years.
People didn't stop flying in passenger airliners, nor vacate tall building due to 9/11. I'd be willing to be that more Americans have died in auto accidents than terrorist attacks.
We were talking about the first automobile accident.
Quote:
Explain politically correct lack of profiling please.
Why? So you can act like you don't know what it means? If "the first granny was searched for bombs" wasn't a good enough clue for you, buy a vowel.
Thomas Joscelyn reports that another former Gitmo detainee has been killed after returning to his terrorist ways. The jihadist in question is Yousef Mohammed al Shihri. He was killed in a shootout at a checkpoint along the Saudi-Yemeni border after he and his accomplices were stopped by Saudi security forces for suspicious behavior:
Quote:
Two of the travelers, including al Shihri, were reportedly dressed as women. Saudi security personnel decided to search the al Qaeda car and its passengers, but al Shihri and the others opened fire. Al Shihri and one other al Qaeda member were killed in the shootout, while a third was arrested. One Saudi security officer was also killed. . . . The Saudi security personnel who searched al Shihri's car reportedly found a small cache of arms, including suicide explosive belts.
Al Shihri's return to terrorism should not surprise anyone. According to Joscelyn, a foreign government service (believed to be Saudi intelligence) provided information on detainees held at Guantanamo Bay that they designated as being high priority targets. Al Shihri was number four on the list.
Furthermore, a memo prepared at Gitmo regarding al Shihri reported:
Quote:
The detainee stated he considers all Americans his enemy. The detainee decided that he hates all Americans because they attack his religion, Islam. Since Americans are the detainee's enemy, he will continue to fight them until he dies.
The detainee pointed to the sky and told the interviewing agents that he will have a meeting with them in the next life. ...
The detainee stated that the FBI, the United States and the interrogators are the enemy.
Nonetheless, in 2007, our government released al Shihri into Saudi custody. After graduating from the Saudi jihadist rehabilitation program (I'm not making this up) he fled from Saudi soil to Yemen, where he joined al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
Instead of investigating those who extracted information from captured terrorists who had been unwilling to provide any, perhaps the Obama administration should investigate those who caused terrorists like al Shihri to be released so they resume their jihad.
We were talking about the first automobile accident.
Actually we were discussing the 3,000 deaths of 9/11 and making comparisons. The FIRST auto accident wasn't good enough, so I made better analogies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchcedar
Why? So you can act like you don't know what it means? If "the first granny was searched for bombs" wasn't a good enough clue for you, buy a vowel.
I'm almost sure I know what it means. But i want to hear your definition so I won't be putting words in your mouth or anything.
I don't understand if you're using "granny" as some sort of slang, or if somebody's grandmother actually was searched for bombs.
Last edited by JustinC939 : 10-24-2009 at 03:09 AM.
You don’t think it was an attack on the United States?
Was Pearl Harbor just a tragedy?
Were Hitler’s death camps just a tragedy?
You get the idea…
Nobody is saying you have to live in fear and sorrow what they are saying is it would be kind of nice if we could prevent the next 9/11.
Bravery is not standing idly by while thousands of people die because of a lack of proper precautions. Bravery is not forgetting lessons learned. Bravery is not putting political correctness above safety.
Tell us about all the freedoms you’ve lost and how it affects your life. Tell us about all of this torture you speak of.
Hell I think we’ve lost more freedoms in the last 9 months than we did in the previous 8 years.
any loss is unacceptable.
and approximately 40,000 people a year die in auto accidents.
__________________ Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die"
Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
Martin Niemöller:
"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;I was not a communist.When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."
me: "suffering is life. deal with it. face it. make fun of it. "
When people can’t see the difference between mass murder and an act war and natural death caused by illness or disease or death in traffic accident there’s really not much I can say. Maybe when some terrorist kills millions with an atomic weapon or somebody stuffs an IED up your arse you’ll get the idea.
Jesus christ whoever has been blowing smoke up your arse did a good job of it.
When people can’t see the difference between mass murder and an act war and natural death caused by illness or disease or death in traffic accident there’s really not much I can say. Maybe when some terrorist kills millions with an atomic weapon or somebody stuffs an IED up your arse you’ll get the idea.
Jesus christ whoever has been blowing smoke up your arse did a good job of it.
No smoke, just logic and common sense.
How many people have died in the U.S. due to terrorist attacks? I'd be willing to bet that less people have died due to terrorist attacks than Homicide. The death toll for Gulf War II has far exceeded that of 9/11 how can you justify any of this? And if money is where your heart really is than you should know that we spend more money on defense than all other nations combined. That being said; you should know that if the money we spent on the Iraq war would have been spent on healthcare; we could have saved more than 3,000 lives.
The time to mourn 9/11 has come and gone. We had the opportunity to learn from it and we haven't learned a thing expect fearing our neighbors. We didn't need torture camps to racial profiling to prevent 9/11. Just common sense; it really should have rang a bell when we had people learning to fly planes without learning how to land them. Now ask yourself what kind of person would want to learn how to fly a plane and not know how land one? 9/11 was a tragedy which was used by conservatives as a tool to engage in two needless wars, take our constitutional rights away, and re-elect an idiot.
How many people have died in the U.S. due to terrorist attacks? I'd be willing to bet that less people have died due to terrorist attacks than Homicide. The death toll for Gulf War II has far exceeded that of 9/11 how can you justify any of this? And if money is where your heart really is than you should know that we spend more money on defense than all other nations combined. That being said; you should know that if the money we spent on the Iraq war would have been spent on healthcare; we could have saved more than 3,000 lives.
The time to mourn 9/11 has come and gone. We had the opportunity to learn from it and we haven't learned a thing expect fearing our neighbors. We didn't need torture camps to racial profiling to prevent 9/11. Just common sense; it really should have rang a bell when we had people learning to fly planes without learning how to land them. Now ask yourself what kind of person would want to learn how to fly a plane and not know how land one? 9/11 was a tragedy which was used by conservatives as a tool to engage in two needless wars, take our constitutional rights away, and re-elect an idiot.
the spectacle got people, and not much else.
and you're right, we didn't learn anything. we just keep pursuing the same damn policies that created the terrorists in the first place. we should have found another source of oil and cut our lands off from the middle east entirely. this empire is dragging us down.
and now it's being done by barack to do the same. don't listen to what he says, notice what he does. he hasn't shut down gitmo and hasn't brought our troops home. and he's sending 34,000 more troops over there! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101203142.html
How many people have died in the U.S. due to terrorist attacks? I'd be willing to bet that less people have died due to terrorist attacks than Homicide. The death toll for Gulf War II has far exceeded that of 9/11 how can you justify any of this? And if money is where your heart really is than you should know that we spend more money on defense than all other nations combined. That being said; you should know that if the money we spent on the Iraq war would have been spent on healthcare; we could have saved more than 3,000 lives.
The time to mourn 9/11 has come and gone. We had the opportunity to learn from it and we haven't learned a thing expect fearing our neighbors. We didn't need torture camps to racial profiling to prevent 9/11. Just common sense; it really should have rang a bell when we had people learning to fly planes without learning how to land them. Now ask yourself what kind of person would want to learn how to fly a plane and not know how land one? 9/11 was a tragedy which was used by conservatives as a tool to engage in two needless wars, take our constitutional rights away, and re-elect an idiot.
So basically what you’re saying is there is no need for national defense or a military, correct?
There is no need to protect the USA from attacks from sources both inside and outside of the USA, correct?
It seems to me every time we have an isolationist policy in this country something bad happens sooner or later. It’s not about fear or unnecessary patriotism it’s about commonsense and protecting the homeland. Events like Pearl Harbor and 9/11 serve as a reminder we live in a dangerous world. To ignore that fact is indeed suicidal. Let me remind you Obama has pretty much followed the same policies Bush set up so far so your argument about Bush and the republicans seems kind of sallow. I don’t fear my neighbors and I don’t think the type of interrogation the bush administration used is torture.
Constitutional rights seemingly ignored by the Obama regime:
War on Fox news, violation of the 1st, 5th and 14th amendment.
Intimidation of private citizens for political gain.
Undo interference with private industry.
Giving Czars powers that have no oversight or checks and balances.
I think you’re arguing apples and I’m arguing oranges on this issue. Sure there’s a need for healthcare reform it’s just a matter of what kind and how much it costs. I don’t think anybody doesn’t see a need for reform. There are a lot of injustices in this country but that doesn’t negate the fact national defense should be the presidents number one priority.
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Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die"
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