WinXP, Mouse lag and Gaming.

[nytmare]

Ok, this is a bit of a read so be prepared to read a while, but i bet you will like it by the time your done.

What started your research into this? Well, I'm a huge razer fan, they have been making gaming mice for years (website - www.razerzone.com ). When they announced their latest mouse (the Diamonback) I was thrilled. A fan site soon posted a preview of it along with the initial specifications. The specifications stated that the mouse had a 1ms lag. Now your thinking wtf mouse lag? My mouse doesn't lag! Actually it does (I'll explain later, farther down). The later official retail specs stated that it had 8ms lag. I was like "why the change from preview to retail?" and thus the questions started......

Lag? What?
At the moment (if your using XP and a USB mouse) your computer is asking your mouse 125 times a second for new information about movement. In other words, every 8ms (1 second=1000ms. 1000ms/125 = 8ms) your computer asks your mouse for "movement" data, turning it into cursour movement then on your screen. EVERY usb mouse plugged into an XP machine by is being asked every 8ms. (I'll explaing this too farther down)
The problem with this is that if you move your hand a lot in those 8ms, there will be a delay between that information being sent and translated into movement on the screen.
The less lag, the better because your hand motions will be translated into movement faster.

But what is it specifically about XP?
Well, to put it simply, XP does not adhere to the official USB specifications (read them here - http://www.usb.org ). Officially when a "low-speed USB human interface device" connection is created, it is done like this : (1) PC acknowledges that a USB HID device has been plugged (2) PC asks mouse "how often, per second, should I ask you for move data?" (3) mouse gives answer (4) PC checks for move data at the rate the mouse specified. Windows 2000, 98, ME, Linux all do it that way, the right way. Windows XP (for reasons I do not know) does it differently : (1) PC acknowledges that a USB HID device has been plugged in (2) PC requests information 125 times a second (125hz) no more, no less. Notice that XP does not ask for how often it should ask the mouse for "move" data. What if the mouse supported the ability to be asked 1000 times a second? There is wasted potentiol right there! (many newer mice support 1000hz polling rates.)

Just gimmie the math/technical! Your silly newbie talk is too much....
WinXP = 1000ms/125hz = 8ms. XP polls mouse for info every 8ms.
High performance mice support 1ms polling as in :
Win2K = 1000ms/1000hz = 1ms. Win2K polls mouse for info every 1ms.
1ms lag(2k) vs. 8ms lag(xp). Less lag = better.

Ok, so what have you tried?
Well, like you, I want 1ms lag. Why would an older/inferior OS such as Win2000 be better at anything than Windows Xp?! So I figured, since Windows XP is very similar to Windows 2000 maybe I can try and copy over some system files to Windows XP from Windows 2000. I mean hey, they are both based on Windows NT and a lot of their system files are named exactly the same way, being used for exactly the same purposes. Well for about 2 weeks now (started Tue Sep 7th) I have been tinkering with all sorts of files. I started keeping other updated on my progress at another forum ( link - my alias is LeXo5 ). I had no success even with others helping me (thanks Buzztiger, akira-EJJ-, Hopkins). No matter what file I edited or copied over (and like wise for everyone else who was helping me) it still wouldn't update any faster than every 8ms! I also started threads in Microsoft's forums at these links (1) and (2) I still couldn't figure it out. All ofa sudden I came across TONS of information to sift through (see the razer thread for all the links and stuff, it's posted there on Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:03 pm if you wanna go look). I didn't have much time to work with any of it though since college is keeping me really busy (I should be doing homework right now..). I hoped others would work with it and find something.

USB, USB, USB, what about PS/2?
PS/2 is actually faster than USB (in windows XP) when it comes to mice by default. PS/2's refresh rate can be manually set for 200hz. 200hz = 5ms. Thats 3ms less lag in Windows XP's mouse polling of 8ms!

Ok, so what are you trying to tell me?
Well, when razer released the information that WinXP didn't officially support the USB specifications thus forcing 8ms mouse lag apprently a lot of people took notice. Obviously for gamers, less lag is better! Well, someone way smarter than me figured out how to increase the polling rate. He tried getting it up to 1000hz (so that XP would poll every 1ms) but his system became unstable. He did succedd in increasing it to 500hz though. 1000ms/500hz = 2ms. Every 2ms (with his patch) WinXP would ask the mouse for new information. Thats almost 1ms and its way better than PS/2!

I R stupid, me not understand u...
summary : winxp makes lag on mouse. lag bad. win2000 not lag on mouse. linux not lag on mouse. smart man make patch. me not smart man. patch make winxp as good as win2000. patch make winxp better for gaming with mouse. get patch at link far down below.

How will I know if the patch works?
Download the mouse rate checker (see links at end of article) and before you do the patch mouse your mouse around a whole lot on the programs window and look at the "average hertz." That will tell you how often your OS is updating the "move" information from your mouse. Remember to divide 1000 by your average hertz. That will get you the "lag" that your mouse is recieving in milliseconds. Also remember that 1000ms is 1 second.

Where can I get the patch?
Its not exactly a patch, more like instructions on what to do. Here is the link to the instructions (article - ). Below is the exact same instructions that I changed a bit. I found his instructions a bit confusing at first so I kinda re-wrote them here, see below

Originally Posted by my_version_of_RaZiel's_instructions

(1) Download a free hex editor. Install it.
(2) Locate usbport.sys in C:\WINDOWS\system32\Drivers
(3) Make a backup of the file, save it as usbport.BAK or something like that.
(4) Go to Hex offset 00015D00 (for SP2. offset may differ from no-SP/SP1 systems.)
(5) See this string? : "3C 08 73 09 C6 86 0A 01" (note : if it isn't this, read Ry-00's comment farther down this page)
(6) Replace the string with either :
------"B0 02 73 09 52 8C 0A 01" (for 2ms polling)
------"B0 04 73 09 52 8A 0A 01" (for 4ms polling)
------"B0 01 73 09 52 8A 0A 01" (for 1ms polling, doesn't work for 99% of people)
(7) Reboot into safe mode. If you can't figure out how, let PC restart, when at booting screen (you know the one with the loading bar?) hold F8. Then select to boot into safe mode. If that doesn't work hit restart button on PC. Now when it gets to that point again it'll ask if you would like to boot normally or go into safe mode. Go into safe mode.
(8) Go into safemode (this is to avoid windows file protection), place the patched usbport.sys backup you made into both
C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers AND C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllcache (a hidden folder). Let it replace the files there.
(9) Reboot, and it should all work fine. Use rate checker to verify that it worked.

NOTE: the string that is mentioned in step 6 may be differnt for some people. Some ppl with WinXP and no servicepack update have these values (or some thing similar) "3C 08 73 09 C6 86 02 01" in the original file instead. You can still patch it, just don't change the "... 02 01" (or whatever) at the end.

Mice and reported success:
Intellimouse Explorer 3 - 250&500hz
Logitech MX300/310/500 - 250&500hz
Logitech MX510 - 250&450hz
Razer Viper - 250&500hz

mouse rate checker 1.1b
mouse rate checker 1.1b

If you could, could you please comment on whether you understood this article? I had a really hard time trying to make it understandable even for those who don't know that much about computers.

EDIT : I want to stress that those instructions are just my version. I am not taking credit for RaZiel's discovery. RaZiel is insanely intelligent to have found that and gets all my respect.

EDIT 2 : I used the patch and upped my Razer Viper's polling to 2ms from WinXP's 8ms. Worked for me.

EDIT 3 : well I just heard this :

Originally Posted by milan03 from razer forums

... intellimouse 4.0... wont allow you to do anything over 125hz. if you try patching, it'll lock the rate at 100hz ! mx510 has some hardware issues, so you can get only 449hz. i have reports that old microsoft optical blue can achieve 1000hz in winXP so if any of you have it, plz give it a try.

EDIT 4 : This edit is dated 9-12-06, this post is really old, just recently got bumped and all the links in here are pretty much null and void so I have taken them out. You can still get mouse rate checkers, polling rate tweak tools and all that in the download section at http://razerblueprints.net/

[nub]

Hold F8 after post screen for Windown boot menu instead of pressing "reset" while booting up.

You can simple type the address to C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllcache without going into safe mode also.

[Lenny]

Interesting stuff. I might try it when I have time. An actual patch sure would be nice. though. The one thing I'm wondering is if forcing XP to sample at 500 Hz (4 times the normal) will increase CPU usage at all. Wouldn't want to impact game performance.

[nytmare]

Thanks nub, i'll edit that in there.

lenny, I strongly doubt that will even make 1% differnce. Keep in mind that Win2K, 98, ME all did more than 125hz soooo ....... if PCs that ran 98 back in the day could do it i bet our rigs could too.......

[Activate: AMD]

yea, but will this hurt/ affect our other USB devices? i have valuable data on a USB key drive that i use almost daily. and a joystick and my ipod

[nytmare]

Originally Posted by Activate: AMD

yea, but will this hurt/ affect our other USB devices? i have valuable data on a USB key drive that i use almost daily. and a joystick and my ipod

I don't think it can hurt anything at all. All it does is up the polling rate on connections with USB mice. I shouldn't effect anything else from what I understand. My PC still works fine with my USB stick.

[lil layzie]

Wow, I can't believe I read all of that lol.

If you could, could you please comment on whether you understood this article? I had a really hard time trying to make it understandable even for those who don't know that much about computers. So yea....... I'll probably edit this article like 10 billion times to make sentances flow better or have it make more sense.....

IMO, this was an excellent post. I just recent bought an mx510 and I was curious to see what you had to say. Some interesting stuff there. Well, I'm going to try it now since I got nothing better to do.

[nytmare]

Originally Posted by lil layzie

Wow, I can't believe I read all of that lol.

So am I! I thought 99% of people would just scroll down to "how to get patch"

Originally Posted by lil layzie

IMO, this was an excellent post.

*phew* .... sometimes I write posts that are very hard to read .... to quote Bruce Willis : I only speak two languages, english and bad english!

[Banditblue]

hey,i have an mx1000 and tried it to see what would happen.Never used a hex editor so that was new to me-

results using mouse rate showed no rate improve BUT,i cant explain exactly.mouse handling just got real good

I could only test on a fairly busy server during a low internet traffic time(same pings tho).I know it did something to the good tho regardleess what the mouse rate checker says-

[Susquehannock]

Wow, great effort nytmare.
Well explained, no problems understanding it here.

Makes me long for the days fragging in Q2 with my
razer boomslang 2000.

[nytmare]

More news from others, in other forums, using this patch :

Originally Posted by ChronoDog (blanktek.com forums)

Did it for my mouse (MS Wheel Mouse Optical Black 1.1A) and it's moticeably more responsive now, although the responsiveness now creates a feeling as if it was a bit slower, but I fixed that by raising the pointer speed a notch up

I've set it to 500hz btw, and it works fine. I tried 1000hz, worked fine too,.......

so if you got a MS Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1A, crank that puppy up to 1000hz

[F!reStr!fe]

Will it make a difference on PS/2 i wanna get it to 1m/s on that?

[nytmare]

PS/2 will not be effected by this patch. This patch is for USB connecting mice on Windows XP only. PS/2's max refresh rate is 200hz (5ms). By default windows sets your PS/2 refresh rate to 100hz (10ms). Change it by doing the stuff below, go to

(1) CONTROL PANEL
(2) MOUSE
(3) HARDWARE tab
(4) select mouse and hit PROPERTIES
(5) ADVANCED SETTINGS tab
(6) Change sample rate to 200
(7) hit OK

It might ask you to reboot. Once you do you will get 200hz (5ms).

[F!reStr!fe]

yea i have it set to that i think it only works with Logitech drivers because i have not seen ti with my microsoft mouse bein able to do it

Ah i love my Mx510 over my crappy old Microsoft Optical

[Ry-00]

Yep, thanks for the links and suggestions nytmare

I am able to get my MS Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1A USB to 500 Hz using your instructions and RaZiel's page. I do feel that it's a little more responive like ChronoDog said. But i didn't want to take the chance to make my Windows ubstable with 1000 Hz just for 1ms less.

However, im curious to know will this tweak damage the mouse or kill the it's life span because of the high Hz? Since were tweaking the mouse frequence to 500 Hz which is 4 times from the default value (125 Hz)?

Also nytmare just to correct a small mistake in your instructions it should be C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers instead of
C:\WINDOWS\system32\System32\Drivers.

Just a reminder for you guys that to view this special hidden folder (C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllcache) you need to uncheck "Hide protected operating system files (Recomended)" in your folder options. Just showing hidden files and folders won't work.


I know that nytmare made a note on this. But in RaZiel's page there was a helpfull comment by SeventhVirgo that people with SP1 must be aware of. I'm not sure of non-SP or SP2. His comment helped cleared my confusion when i was changing the file. Here it is below...

===============
For those who have
3C 08 73 09 C6 86 02 01 instead of
3C 08 73 09 C6 86 0A 01

Dont replace the 02 with 0A, your mouse will not work if you do. Hehe, I just found that out and to to use my keyboard to navigat through windows... not very fun .

Instead just leave it as 02 and it'll work.

Example:

3C 08 73 09 C6 86 02 01 to:
B0 02 73 09 52 8C 02 01 (500 hz)

And thank you Raziel...
===============