HW patent laws and SW patents

[vote ron paul]

I had always wondered what the Federal Patent laws are for Hardware and Software. Can anyone describe them to me, or link them (preferrably the former)?

Does anyone expect them to be revised to be less strict within the next 5 years or so? What about U.S. vs. EU?

I kind of think that any patent laws are harmful. I definitely agree with John Carmack about no software patents, even if I disagree with him about piracy.

My first reason against software patents, is related to Doom3's development. Just because one person filed for it first, doesn't mean they were the only person that could think of the idea and execute it. Of course, there are many other reasons why I'm against software patents, including the fact that companies out of business still have their patents "protected", along with the fact that the creator of patent may get too proud with it and refuse to make or allow better use of it. Finally, they simply cause prices to be higher. I mean, if MS could nearly copy MacOS and make it not any better, at least at first, then I think software patents shouldn't be allowed by law.

[zetachi]

so let me get this straight. You invent something worth millions of dollars to you, you've worked years on it, it has consumed your life. Then right before you release it 10 other company's steal your idea and you get nothing... you're OK with that?

[Brandito]

without patent laws who is going to invest the time and money into making anything worth while?

patents allow a person to make money off something they've invested time and money into. money is the great motivator, take that away and there's less (or virtually no) reason for someone to create something good.

yeah yeah, sure there are people who will just do it for the greater good of humanity, but they're few and far between, let's not kid ourselves. good intentions don't pay the bills.

[Gator650]

I think patents are a good idea.... it's the length of the patents that bothers me. The length of time until it turns into fair use for the good of all is far too long.

Also, in my personal opinion... SW patents are an ever changing interpretation rule at this point and until some significant quality control is done on exactly how vaguely you can patent software it is a major pain in the ass.

[madhatter256]

Originally Posted by vote ron paul

I had always wondered what the Federal Patent laws are for Hardware and Software. Can anyone describe them to me, or link them (preferrably the former)?

Does anyone expect them to be revised to be less strict within the next 5 years or so? What about U.S. vs. EU?

I kind of think that any patent laws are harmful. I definitely agree with John Carmack about no software patents, even if I disagree with him about piracy.

My first reason against software patents, is related to Doom3's development. Just because one person filed for it first, doesn't mean they were the only person that could think of the idea and execute it. Of course, there are many other reasons why I'm against software patents, including the fact that companies out of business still have their patents "protected", along with the fact that the creator of patent may get too proud with it and refuse to make or allow better use of it. Finally, they simply cause prices to be higher. I mean, if MS could nearly copy MacOS and make it not any better, at least at first, then I think software patents shouldn't be allowed by law.

Is not the sweat on your brow rightfully yours?

"NO!" says the man in Washington, "It belongs to the poor."
"NO!" says the man in The Vatican, "It belongs to God."
"NO!" says the man in the Kremlin, "It belongs to the people."

[Electric Bill]

vrp is an uber gamer so all he cares about are things that affect his "right to game" at any cost.

Remember the story last year about Prof. Rothschild and her blue laser patent infringement case?
Gamers were up in arms and calling her a patent troll because she wanted the court to stop 30 companies from illegally infringing on her patent.
Example http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=23751

Bill

[Poci]

Im a gamer too and I dont care about that stuff.

Btw what is Carmacks view on piracy?

My only problem with piracy is that most crackz are viruses.

In a utopian world all software would be free and we wouldnt be charged 50 dollars for games that suck or play multiplayer games that are infested with cheaters that ruin the fun we paid for.

[vote ron paul]

Originally Posted by zetachi

so let me get this straight. You invent something worth millions of dollars to you, you've worked years on it, it has consumed your life. Then right before you release it 10 other company's steal your idea and you get nothing... you're OK with that?

Good idea, but that's not how I operate.
I don't know that I invented it. Suppose someone invented it before, and got held up in a traffic accident while trying to get to the office to file a patent? What if someone, like Carmack thought of something on their own, and that got accused of "stealing" it, and got sued for it, because someone thought of it first?

I'm a Randian objectivist, so I'm not going to take up someone elses money to claim any idea is my own, and rely on a government to enforce it.

What if a company goes out of business, like 3DO, and then potentially great emulators like FreeDO get blocked by a 3rd party who simply collected from 3DO, and certainly a ton of money from their Founder?

If and only if, I believe I have created something valuable, then I'll use the patent to the best of my ability, but if someone far more ingenius than me can make better use of it, then I'll proudly let someone else use it.

I might raise the price of a product due to inflation, but I'm not going to file a patent.

Not trying to debate, but I believe the points I just stated are pretty good. I know patents are popular but they're just hurting everyone, regardless if they realize it.

Originally Posted by Brandito

without patent laws who is going to invest the time and money into making anything worth while?

patents allow a person to make money off something they've invested time and money into. money is the great motivator, take that away and there's less (or virtually no) reason for someone to create something good.

yeah yeah, sure there are people who will just do it for the greater good of humanity, but they're few and far between, let's not kid ourselves. good intentions don't pay the bills.

AMD had a lawsuit against them for

When AMD added the x64 extension to the x86 architecture and intel acted like they never would've, plus AMD was willing to sell for cheaper, and intel is a much wealthier company which AMD could never overcome, then HW patents could start to hurt many people, if Intel hasn't dropped their lawsuit, right?

Wasn't MS successful because they ripped off of macOS? Don't some people prefer windows? I know win7 is pretty cool.

I understand the need to make money, but patent laws cost people money, and the inventors will eventually have all the money.

Originally Posted by Gator650

I think patents are a good idea.... it's the length of the patents that bothers me. The length of time until it turns into fair use for the good of all is far too long.

Also, in my personal opinion... SW patents are an ever changing interpretation rule at this point and until some significant quality control is done on exactly how vaguely you can patent software it is a major pain in the ass.

Well, that's good to know. I think they should be reduced to a absolute duration of 6 months; for everything. They impede other people from improving on them.

Originally Posted by Electric Bill

vrp is an uber gamer so all he cares about are things that affect his "right to game" at any cost.

Remember the story last year about Prof. Rothschild and her blue laser patent infringement case?
Gamers were up in arms and calling her a patent troll because she wanted the court to stop 30 companies from illegally infringing on her patent.
Example http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=23751

Bill

I know; that costs the tax-payer a lot of money, when these proud people think they own everything.

Originally Posted by Poci

Im a gamer too and I dont care about that stuff.

Btw what is Carmacks view on piracy?

My only problem with piracy is that most crackz are viruses.

In a utopian world all software would be free and we wouldnt be charged 50 dollars for games that suck or play multiplayer games that are infested with cheaters that ruin the fun we paid for.

id is one of the industry's biggest critics on piracy. Gabe newell is there to defend us from DRM, though. He's done a damn good job too, IMO. I'd say that's a much greater contribution to the gaming community than Half-life 1 and 2 combined were.

I don't think that software should be absolutely not paid for in any way, but the consumer shouldn't be limited from having the individual right of a more balanced quality to value ratio.

Besides, a game that sucks to one individual may not suck to the other individual.

I mean, the industry needs to try reducing piracy on it's own, well before any 3rd parties step in. On the other hand, then maybe they could get funding from people interested in the game, or the company to make it, then they could just release a master copy, and let everyone copy it, download it, whatever. That's not proven to be any worse. In fact, it could be better for everyone. No one knows, because it hasn't been proven. But I'd bet the value of everything I own that it would be better for everyone.

[Brandito]

you just don't seem to grasp WHY we have patent laws.

you stifle innovation without them. people need funding to come up with new ideas and put them to work, it's not enough just to have an idea, it's following through with it, and what reason is there to follow through if you're gonna invest all your own money and time and get nothing in return but going bankrupt?

no one said they're perfect, but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

patents weren't just thought up one day in order to tick YOU off, there's actually been some thought put into them. as times change patent laws should too, which is probably one of our current problems. technology outpacing the laws. getting rid of them altogether would never work out.

[Electric Bill]

Originally Posted by vote ron paul

I know; that costs the tax-payer a lot of money, when these proud people think they own everything.

They do own everything and they paid for it by doing the time.

Well you talk the talk so why don't you walk the walk and come up with some freeware innovations that will change the world.
You seem to think that because you misspent 10 years or so as a gamer the world owes you something.
I think you owe the world something for allowing you to exist without contributing anything of value.

Bill

[vote ron paul]

Originally Posted by Electric Bill

They do own everything and they paid for it by doing the time.

Well you talk the talk so why don't you walk the walk and come up with some freeware innovations that will change the world.
You seem to think that because you misspent 10 years or so as a gamer the world owes you something.
I think you owe the world something for allowing you to exist without contributing anything of value.

Bill

Just because my opinion may be different from yours, doesn't mean that I'm wrong.
I pay for things. It's not like I don't pay people who file patents for their creations.
I've spent far closer to 20 years years as a gamer not misspent 10 years.

And I don't think the world owes me anything. There are better alternatives to patents, IMO. Those alternatives would benefit everyone.

Think of it this way; would you rather pay the creator of a patent $800 for their product, or pay someone who makes something better with it $400, someone who made something better and is willing to charge 1/2 the price for it?

[Electric Bill]

Originally Posted by vote ron paul

Think of it this way; would you rather pay the creator of a patent $800 for their product, or pay someone who makes something better with it $400, someone who made something better and is willing to charge 1/2 the price for it?

Anyone care to decipher that for me?

[Brandito]

Originally Posted by Electric Bill

Anyone care to decipher that for me?

he's blinded me with SCIENCE!

[Electric Bill]

Thank you.

[Electric Bill]

Originally Posted by vote ron paul

And I don't think the world owes me anything. There are better alternatives to patents, IMO. Those alternatives would benefit everyone.

So you would like us to believe that you have some sort of altruistic motive.
Patents cost consumers money and impede creativity.
Someone spends years developing an idea but they shouldn't be rewarded for their hard work.
Your a Randian Objectivist sure sounds impressive.

So why stop there?
What about doctors?
They certainly live the good life at least here in the USA.
Since they are providing a public service shouldn't they be paid the same salaries as police and fire personnal.
But wait I believe you once said that your dad is a doctor.
That might affect you personally and we certainly don't want that so let's pick on someone who's patent might impact your ability to game.

Carmack, 3DO, Gabe Newell - this isn't about patents it's about vrp and the video game world he lives in.

Bill