The Lightning RoundIf you're looking for a highly charged debate, this is the place to find it. But be forewarned, rules infractions are taken very seriously here.
Howdy folks,
I'm Ryan dont be fooled Ive been here lurking since amdmb.
Let talk secession. personally as a native Texan I'm proud of my heritage but it seems bat .... crazy. I didnt think much of it till it hit the front page of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1623872.html
some excerpts.
Quote:
Challenging Washington
More commonplace are states’ rights movements to directly challenge federal laws, a citizen revolt that one scholar says is unparalleled in modern times. Among the actions in which states are thumbing their nose at Washington:
■ Montana and Tennessee have enacted legislation declaring that firearms made and kept within those states are beyond the authority of the federal government. Similar versions of the law, known as the Firearms Freedom Act, have been introduced in at least four other states.
■ Arizona lawmakers will let voters decide a proposed state constitutional amendment that would opt the state out of federal healthcare mandates under consideration in Congress. The amendment will be placed on the November 2010 ballot. State Rep. Nancy Barto, R-Phoenix, said five other states considered similar versions of the amendment this year and at least nine others are expected to do so next year.
■ Nearly two dozen states have approved resolutions refusing to participate in the Real ID Act of 2005, which requires that driver’s licenses and state ID cards conform to federal standards. A similar resolution was introduced in the 2009 Texas Legislature but died in committee.
■ A campaign called "Bring the Guard Home" is pushing legislation in 23 states that would empower governors to recall state National Guard units from Iraq on the premise that the federal law authorizing such deployments has expired. "It’s gaining momentum, to say the least," said Jim Draeger, program manager for Peace Action Wisconsin. He said the initiative has a respectable chance of passing the Legislature in his state.
Quote:
Texas as a nation
After declaring independence from Mexico on March 2, 1836, Texas was an independent republic for nearly a decade before being annexed into the United States in 1845. Now some Texas secessionists believe it’s time for the state to once again become its own country. Here’s a sampling of how a modern-day Republic of Texas would compare with the rest of the world.
Population
With 24.3 million residents, Texas would be the 47th-most-populous nation, between Saudi Arabia (25.7 million) and North Korea (24 million). It would be more populous than Greece, Belgium, Portugal and Israel.
Size
With 261,914 square miles, it would be the 40th-largest country, behind Zambia in East Africa (290,585) and ahead of Myanmar (261,228). It would be larger than Afghanistan, France, Iraq, Germany and Vietnam.
Economy
With a gross state product of $1.24 trillion, it would rank 11th or 12th, depending on the survey, behind Canada ($1.56 trillion) and slightly ahead of India ($1.23 trillion). Its economy would be larger than that of Australia, the Netherlands, South Korea, Turkey and Poland. But it would be vastly overshadowed by its huge neighbor, the United States, which has the largest economy in the world, $14.3 trillion.
Environment
Environmental groups say Texas’ record of spewing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere makes it one of the world biggest polluters. Texas leads the nation with 10 percent of the total U.S. emissions and would rank seventh in the world if it were its own country, the Environmental Defense Fund said in a 2008 report.
Executions
Texas, which leads the nation in executions, would likely rank among the top 10 countries in carrying out capital punishment, joining a list that includes Iran and North Korea. The United States is also on the list, primarily because of executions in Texas. In 2008, Texas carried out 18 of the nation’s 37 executions. According to Amnesty International, the United States ranked fourth in worldwide executions in 2008 but was nowhere close to the top three: China (1,718), Iran (346) and Saudi Arabia (102). North Korea’s Stalinist regime carried out at least 15 known executions, but researchers say the number could be far greater.
How it would fare on its own
Texas, now considered one of the most prosperous states in the country, has a broad-based economy that could make it largely self-sufficient, secession advocates say. Its major products include energy, agriculture, high-tech manufacturing and tourism. Assuming friendly relations, the United States presumably would look to Texas for much of its energy needs, since the Lone Star State leads the nation in production of crude oil, natural gas and wind energy. As part of the Union, it has been the top-exporting state and would continue to ship out chemicals, computers, electronics, machinery, petroleum, coal and transportation equipment. At least one big industry — defense — could suffer if the Pentagon adhered to a rigid "buy American" policy and shunned Texas-made defense products.
Ill start by saying I understand the sentiment that washington doesnt represent the people anymore.
A few things stand out to me.
1. Isnt signing a petition to secede renouncing american citizenship. Therefore you would have no second amendment rights. I know everytime i purchase a weapon from an ffl i have to say ive never renounced my citizenship and with the proposal of denying 2nd amendment rights to "potential" terrorist this seems like a good way to throw your rights away.
2. I cannot for one minute believe that a peaceful secession is possible much less probable. All the reason that Texas could be sustainable on its own are the same reasons the U.S.A could never let Texas go.
3. On warfare
A. The U.S. has a well trained standing army. I dont foresee carpet bombing Texas infrastructure but i dont think we could train, organize troops fast enough i believe wed be overan within days. Even with Texas Army/Air national guards cooperation the sheer numbers of soldiers and fire power the U.S has would obliterate us. Were not half a world away were a few hours drive.
4. Economy. Kiss that 1.24 trillion dollar economy goodbye where as a sucessful secession may lead to excellent opportunities for new business growth it would take years to reap the rewards. T
5. Government. Im conservative on social issues and second amendment rights but the guys in these ovements seem like total freaking nutjobs. I simply do not want to be governed by religous zealots or rednecks who didnt flush the antifreeze out of their stills.
Well anyway I think these proposed peices of legislation are more about stroking ones ego and giving washington the bird in a formal way than accomplishing anything
Is secession possible, plausible or worth it? Your thoughts?
Howdy folks,
I'm Ryan dont be fooled Ive been here lurking since amdmb.
Let talk secession. personally as a native Texan I'm proud of my heritage but it seems bat .... crazy. I didnt think much of it till it hit the front page of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1623872.html
some excerpts.
Ill start by saying I understand the sentiment that washington doesnt represent the people anymore.
A few things stand out to me.
1. Isnt signing a petition to secede renouncing american citizenship. Therefore you would have no second amendment rights. I know everytime i purchase a weapon from an ffl i have to say ive never renounced my citizenship and with the proposal of denying 2nd amendment rights to "potential" terrorist this seems like a good way to throw your rights away.
2. I cannot for one minute believe that a peaceful secession is possible much less probable. All the reason that Texas could be sustainable on its own are the same reasons the U.S.A could never let Texas go.
3. On warfare
A. The U.S. has a well trained standing army. I dont foresee carpet bombing Texas infrastructure but i dont think we could train, organize troops fast enough i believe wed be overan within days. Even with Texas Army/Air national guards cooperation the sheer numbers of soldiers and fire power the U.S has would obliterate us. Were not half a world away were a few hours drive.
4. Economy. Kiss that 1.24 trillion dollar economy goodbye where as a sucessful secession may lead to excellent opportunities for new business growth it would take years to reap the rewards. T
5. Government. Im conservative on social issues and second amendment rights but the guys in these ovements seem like total freaking nutjobs. I simply do not want to be governed by religous zealots or rednecks who didnt flush the antifreeze out of their stills.
Well anyway I think these proposed peices of legislation are more about stroking ones ego and giving washington the bird in a formal way than accomplishing anything
Is secession possible, plausible or worth it? Your thoughts?
i think as the dollar falls we will start to see states and people shun the federal government. i keep thinking we'll just form a new union parallel to the current one and just let the current one implode and die off.
second off, most of the US troops aren't here. they're on the other side of the planet. and would they even attack us if ordered to do so? i doubt it somehow. too many Texans in the army. the US could attack us, but it'd never occupy us. they can't even kill off 15,000 cave men. what the hell are they gonna do to 24 million (that doesn't count the illegals) angry Texans? nothing! they'd be laid to waste as soon as they entered the state. we'd wage a guerrilla war where instead of being sparsely populated by militants we'd be completely populated by militants... the militants being every Texan.
we do need to strengthen our rights. particularly the right to bear arms, which we aren't very good with ourselves honestly (the whole no guns within 2000 feet of a school zone thing makes it very hard to carry i'm thinking. unless a carry license allows you to circumvent that law), and the right to assemble (particularly in the form of unions and protests). there was one other but i forgot it. :/
we also need to create a right to decide what does and doesn't go into our bodies. this will become more apparent if they force vaccinations on us.
__________________ Viewsonic ... they still suck... but now i'm going to get to see if they can make an lcd that works thanks to warranty.. and lcd that costs half as much as that crt did. i still recommend that you NEVER buy from them. EVER! there are plenty of brands out there that will make you something that does actually work.
then we'll get rid of him. why do people vote for him anyway?
Because he's a pretty boy, with a pretty mouth, who has more of a distain for the Republic than anyone would really believe. His head is so far up Cintras ass, he probably farts La Cucaracha.
Texas, which leads the nation in executions, would likely rank among the top 10 countries in carrying out capital punishment....
If they start with the IRS, it could catch on....
In actuality, this is just so much musing at this point. One of the reasons we are the United States is because there is so much dependency on each other.
Maybe rather than considering seceding, perhaps we as a Union should consider cutting loose certain parts that are a drag on the rest of us- like New York City and Washington, DC. At least make them penal colonies.
__________________ Where do some of the number$ come from?
i don't know how this wouldn't happen if the dollar keeps falling. we're screwed anyway. printing and backing a new currency may be the only way out of that pit we've dug ourselves.
people say that creating a new currency would crash the economy... but if it's gonna crash anyway, why not make a new, banker free, currency? of course we'd have to rid ourselves of certain asinine and uncooperative states... and form a new union. most likely with limited federal powers as the states most likely to do this, and they're not all southern (Montana for example), are for limited fed power.
cus they know they'd never get ashore although they could cause devastation along the coast.... and if they came in through the border we'd hose em with lead.
Processors
Motherboards
Chipsets
Memory
Graphics Cards
Storage
Cases and Cooling
Mobile
Systems
Displays
Shows and Expos
Viewsonic ... they still suck... but now i'm going to get to see if they can make an lcd that works thanks to warranty.. and lcd that costs half as much as that crt did. i still recommend that you NEVER buy from them. EVER! there are plenty of brands out there that will make you something that does actually work.
Linear Mode
