So why is Nvidia lagging behind ATI in directx 11 cards?

Hefner · § #1 11-16-2009, 10:21 PM

Poci · § #2 11-16-2009, 10:41 PM

Its a long story

ai5000 · § #3 11-16-2009, 10:57 PM

I got time.

mpulliam · § #4 11-16-2009, 11:41 PM

The same reason that they floated the G90 core for so long - less then 1% demand for a "better card" on the market, while 50% of the loyal customer base continued to buy the 2XX series. That 1% of gamers that need/buy bleeding edge is shrinking even further with dumbed down consoles grfx being "good enough" for most gamers.

ATI played their cards well (pun intended), produced 10k units of their 5XXX series and pushed them out the door ahead of time knowing that Nvidias orig release date for 3XX series was March 2010. We wont see Nvidias answer until Dec now and can be sure it will be early/rushed 10k units....

As to whats better? /Shrug.. Ti4200, 9800Pro, 6800GT, etc etc etc...

None of the games I'm playing TODAY are dx10, let alone 11. I have very little need to update, allthough that 4890/1gb DDR5 I dropped in a customers build today sure impressed me, and for so little money.

Hmmm.

Poci · § #5 11-17-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpulliam

The same reason that they floated the G90 core for so long - less then 1% demand for a "better card" on the market, while 50% of the loyal customer base continued to buy the 2XX series. That 1% of gamers that need/buy bleeding edge is shrinking even further with dumbed down consoles grfx being "good enough" for most gamers.

ATI played their cards well (pun intended), produced 10k units of their 5XXX series and pushed them out the door ahead of time knowing that Nvidias orig release date for 3XX series was March 2010. We wont see Nvidias answer until Dec now and can be sure it will be early/rushed 10k units....

As to whats better? /Shrug.. Ti4200, 9800Pro, 6800GT, etc etc etc...

None of the games I'm playing TODAY are dx10, let alone 11. I have very little need to update, allthough that 4890/1gb DDR5 I dropped in a customers build today sure impressed me, and for so little money.

Hmmm.

Big titles coming out in 2010 are DX 11......

WILDMAN17707 · § #6 11-17-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poci

Big titles coming out in 2010 are DX 11......

And nVidia will have a solution out by then.

AMDTurbo · § #7 11-17-2009, 08:57 AM

They are not lagging, DX11 cards are just not needed right now, there is almost no use for it.

They will release new line soon, in time for DX11 games to start showing up.

I think what Nvidia needs to focus on is "bang for the buck", this is where ATI has succeeded past 2 years or so.

I'm no ATI or Nvidia fan, when it's time to buy I just get the best bang for the buck.

**TheGlasMan** · § #8 11-17-2009, 09:03 AM

Counter question?

Why does ATI release support for dx's before there are any apps? biggrin:

Seriously, it's a matter of marketing. nVidia generally has the fastest GPU's now, and they don't want to throw their core away for support of features that aren't needed yet. ATI is behind in speed so they work for features that can make a difference. Like right now, a DX11 card seems like a wiser purchase then a DX10 card. (Vista could never knock off XP which only supports DX9, Win7 looks to get much more accepted then Vista)

Which will be better in the long run remains to be seen.

Bearded Frog · § #9 11-17-2009, 09:29 AM

The same reason why you cant buy a Radeon 5870 to save your life right now. It isn't really nvidia's delay at this point but the people who actually make the chips are having a lot of issues with 40nm.

mpulliam · § #10 11-17-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poci

Big titles coming out in 2010 are DX 11......

When its summer time and lets say there are more then a handful of games worth buying/playing that are dx 11 - would you rather have an ATI card made in Sept. 2009, or an Nvidia card made in March 2010?

On a side note, my supplier has a back order of 4500+ now for 5870/5850's. When I asked him "when"? his reply was "You tell me". AMD slam dunked a lot of people for vaporware - thats a lot of money right there in their pocket. Excellent move on their part to release early.

Poci · § #11 11-17-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILDMAN17707

And nVidia will have a solution out by then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpulliam

When its summer time and lets say there are more then a handful of games worth buying/playing that are dx 11 - would you rather have an ATI card made in Sept. 2009, or an Nvidia card made in March 2010?

On a side note, my supplier has a back order of 4500+ now for 5870/5850's. When I asked him "when"? his reply was "You tell me". AMD slam dunked a lot of people for vaporware - thats a lot of money right there in their pocket. Excellent move on their part to release early.

In response to both of you.

And what makes you think the nvidia card will be better?

Specs look great on paper, but I dont think that will be the actual outcome....

Bearded Frog · § #12 11-17-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poci

In response to both of you.

And what makes you think the nvidia card will be better?

Specs look great on paper, but I dont think that will be the actual outcome....

Considering it is a revolutionary new design and completely different from the previous generation I think there is a very high chance it will perform much better than the last generation of nvidia cards.

The 5870 doesn't wow me at all. It isn't really a significant jump over a previous gen card.

I think nvidia has the right strategy here. DX11 is out but only starting to take off. Nvidia took the extra time and designed a revolutionary chip with much more performance over the previous gen in mind. ATI rushed out a new solution to hopefully grab people with marketing by having the only DX11 cards. The problem is that it's failing. Their cards aren't around because they're running into the same issue nvidia is. The problem is when the dust clears for both of them on chip production nvidia is going to have the better developed chip and just in time for the slew of DX11 titles.

The only way this will turn out good for ATI is if the DX11 titles are out by christmas and are the titles people want. This and ATI would have to get better yields again having plenty of inventory available by xmas as well.

It is possible that will happen but its probably more likely that it wont and by the time ATI gets their product back out there and good DX11 titles are out nvidia will have their solution out with better numbers than ATI. You can call me a fanboy here if you wish but this is just my prediction.

mpulliam · § #13 11-17-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poci

In response to both of you.

And what makes you think the nvidia card will be better?

Specs look great on paper, but I dont think that will be the actual outcome....

I never said Nvidia would be better. These days I sell 4890's all day long since there is a huge over stock on them and their prices are stupidly low. If only I didnt have an Nvidia chipset ...

My comment is in referance to when/what I would by. ATI 5XXX series built in Sept/Nov 2009, or an Nvidia card built Feb/March 2010. Since the first DX11 game is scheduled to be released March 2010, I would gamble on the later production card possibly being better, rather then a 5 month old card design that requires a number of driver upgrades.

Opps, said the "D" word and in referance to ATI. didnt mean ot go there ...

Poci · § #14 11-17-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpulliam

I never said Nvidia would be better. These days I sell 4890's all day long since there is a huge over stock on them and their prices are stupidly low. If only I didnt have an Nvidia chipset ...

My comment is in referance to when/what I would by. ATI 5XXX series built in Sept/Nov 2009, or an Nvidia card built Feb/March 2010. Since the first DX11 game is scheduled to be released March 2010, I would gamble on the later production card possibly being better, rather then a 5 month old card design that requires a number of driver upgrades.

Opps, said the "D" word and in referance to ATI. didnt mean ot go there ...

By march the ati drivers will have matured while nvidias new card will still be in its infancy.

mpulliam · § #15 11-17-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poci

By march the ati drivers will have matured while nvidias new card will still be in its infancy.

Nevermind, I'll just let that statment stand for what it says.

Try supporting a company before preaching its products. Your not helping ATI by making posts saying your going to buy one of their cards (check out your history) while still have paid for an Nvidia product (8800GT your still rocking).

I'm out. Poci has spoken and I have $150/hr to make, not to waste here.

-=M=-